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We're in the process of buying one of the few unimproved lots remaining in West Cave Estates. From what we've seen so far we really like the subdivision, and the HOA restrictions seem pretty reasonable.
Is anyone familiar enough with West Cave Estates to give us an opinion on the subdivision and surrounding area? Also, does anyone have any recent information on the LCRA water supply line that's supposedly being brought down Hamilton Pool Road and whether or not (and at what cost) WCE residents will be able to tap into it?
Not too familiar with the area but here is a link to LCRA with details and info on the water line you inquired about. Proposed Hamilton Pool Road water line
We're in the process of buying one of the few unimproved lots remaining in West Cave Estates. From what we've seen so far we really like the subdivision, and the HOA restrictions seem pretty reasonable.
Is anyone familiar enough with West Cave Estates to give us an opinion on the subdivision and surrounding area? Also, does anyone have any recent information on the LCRA water supply line that's supposedly being brought down Hamilton Pool Road and whether or not (and at what cost) WCE residents will be able to tap into it?
Thanks much for any info!
I'm very familiar with West Cave and Saddletree which is across the street and both neighborhoods turned down the opportunity to hook up to LCRA water so I would not count on it being available, but you can always check with the LCRA. From what I understand there were not enough people that wanted to hook up to the water. Which is why the lots are so incredibly priced compared to other neighborhoods. Do your research on wells and you will probably want to do a filtration system/water softner when you build a home.
...both neighborhoods turned down the opportunity to hook up to LCRA water so I would not count on it being available...
I had thought that might be the case, as some of the documentation I've seen had indicated that it was going to cost about $10,000 per residence to tap into the line. It's not surprising that they turned it down, when a well can be drilled for not much more than that. From what I can gather, negotiations are still ongoing, but I could be wrong.
One concern about West Cave Estates is that the Board adopted a "fining policy" after much consultation with a management company and attorney that profit mightily from such activity. WCE may have also adopted what is referred to as the "priority of payment" scam.
The restrictions you refer to don't event mention fines, do they?!
The standard operating procedure of this management company appears to be convincing an HOA board to empower itself to impose fines on residents. A "priority of payment" resolution is then adopted to re-characterize assessment payments to be applied to fines, management company fees, collection fees, etc. against your will. Then the management company roves the neighborhood accusing residents of CCR violations. There is no equal protection or due process, you are simply deemed guilty by the management company that profits from the process.
By the way, when accused and your assessment is re-characterized - that typically triggers additional collection fees for the management company (remember you paid the assessment, but it was re-characterized into another fee against your will thus making you late for the assessment payment).
Keep in mind that the WCE board did this via resolution - not some vote of the residents or CCR amendment. Accordingly, the CCRs won't reflect this insidious racket. You might ask 1) who the management company is, 2) for copies of any fining policy, and 3) whether WCE adopted the priority of payment scam. The management company undoubtedly filed a management certificate at the county clerk's office. You will likely also find the fining resolution and a priority of payment resolution recorded at the same place. WCE is in two counties, so you might check both the Travis & Hays records for these resolutions.
As a result of the priority of payment scam, residents are threatened not only with fines but with foreclosure unless they do whatever the management company or board commands. In the event someone tries to rationalize this practice by claiming you only need to "follow the rules", you need to realize that with this kind of power it really doesn't matter what the rules say. You will inevitably be accused regardless of what your restrictions say.
This practice has nothing to do with "preserving property values" - at least not for you. It's about extracting as much from the residents as possible through accusations of breaching the CCRs. The management company behind this is Alliance Association Management. You might consider staying away from any neighborhood Alliance is involved with.
I'm sure the lot is a great lot. When you look at real estate, you only see the physical attributes of the property. Unfortunately, you can't see the invisible aspect of the HOA and the management company which often represent the biggest threat to your home, your investment, and your quality of life.
I've been following some of your posts regarding HOA's and your difficulties therewith, and while I may not share your bitterness toward them I do believe in educating myself in the interest of making a sound decision regarding our purchase. To that end, I've done some research regarding the WCE HOA and its bylaws.
You are correct that the HOA is managed by Alliance Association Management. In fact, the HOA sent out a member survey to the homeowners in the community, and the results show that most of them are not happy with what AAM is doing. We shall see how that turns out.
I also obtained copies of the resolution (for both counties) of which you speak, regarding levying fines for violations of covenants and restrictions (attached). To me, this seems perfectly reasonable, for several reasons. First, the resolution provides a set schedule of fines, and provides that the first violation will result in a warning, with no fine assessed until the second violation of the same restriction. Second, the resolution provides the member with the option of a hearing pursuant to the violation, and this hearing is governed by applicable Texas law.
The only item of concern I see is the provision that allows the BOD to change the amounts in the fine schedule at any time. However, the BOD members are homeowners in the subdivision, so one would expect this to provide a modicum of restraint to the members of the BOD, lest they find themselves at the other end of the fine schedule after their term of office.
Otherwise, this seems fairly standard. I will, however, be in contact with some current residents in the community to get a feel for how the BOD has been assessing the fines and whether or not they appear to be reasonable.
Please look at that resolution a little more carefully.
Some might find it appalling that you would simply accept that an HOA that didn't have fining authority would suddenly be able to empower itself with the ability to unilaterally fine residents. It's no more reasonable for the HOA to be able to fine you than it is for you to be able to unilaterally fine your neighbor when you believe the neighbor violated the restrictive covenants.
Fining is a governmental power and interpretation of contracts is a matter of law. The HOA is a private person under the law and is neither a court nor a legal government. There is no equal protection or due process involved. Do you have the ability to simply adopt a policy and start threatening your neighbors with fines? Of course not. Why should neighbors or the management company be able to threaten you with fines under the guise of the HOA?
The West Cave Estates CCRs did not give the HOA the power to fine. Read your CCRs. Residents weren't given any vote on any of this. Alliance and the attorney it works with in that case advised and convinced the HOA Board to adopt that resolution. You know why? It's because it's guaranteed business and payment for the attorney and Alliance at the accused homeowner's expense. When someone stands accused they will have no choice but to pay that attorney's fees under threat of foreclosure on their home because of the re-characterization scam of §4.1 of the resolution you provided. Read it very closely. Inevitably you will end up with Board members that really thrive on the ability to threaten neighbors with the loss of their homes unless they do what the Board member wants.
By the way, the notice provision of the fining policy doesn't indicate the amount of time that must lapse between notices. This is deliberate and it benefits the management company to hit people with multiple notices mailed the same day. Alliance is certainly known to send out second and third notices on the same day. I know this from complaints of other neighbors in my subdivision and we're dealing with the SAME management company.
The priority of payment scam is UNLAWFUL in most of the United States because it is considered to be a violation of the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. So far in the 5th Circuit (including Texas), however, Carona and his organizations have prevented the FDCPA from being applicable to HOAs. This often happens by running the homeowner into the ground financially so that the legality of the practice is not effectively challenged. Carona has also actively worked to thwart legislation that would protect homeowners from his management company practices.
Great pains are taken to give the appearance of democracy, but that is little more than a myth. Democracy requires at least due process, equal protection, and an impartial tribunal - none of which will exist in your HOA. With respect to a hearing, there is no value in being heard by your accusers nor do you really have a way of forcing the Board to provide you a hearing (the statute lacks any meaningful remedy). In addition, although you think you could simply vote the Board out, think again. When you stand accused, your vote is typically not allowed to count. In fact, it's quite common for a Board to be advised to disenfranchise opponents or non-supporters by declaring them to be in violation just before an election. You may never know if your vote counted because voting is "secret" [except the Board knows how you voted and decides whether or not your vote counts]
Now for the really important part. You only provided a "thumbnail" image of the resolution. However, even from the thumbnail it was apparent that the extortive priority of payment scam is now active in the neighborhood you seek to invest in.
Please note section 4.1. Please also note that the laws referred to were written by the Senator (John Carona) that owns the management company through his Associa organization. He has removed his name from the "about us" section of Alliance this year probably because this is an election year. However, you can verify my claims through the Texas Secretary of State corporation records. Carona authored the Texas Property Owners Protection Act (Texas Property Code §209), but he had it gamed to protect his management company practices. This Act includes language that purports to protect homeowners from foreclosure due to fines or attorney fees relating to violations of restrictive covenants. Sounds okay, right? Then his management companies push this priority of payment scam in the neighborhoods they manage. Your assessment money is applied to fines and whatever other fees the management company dreams up. So now you are deemed to be in the hole on your assessments and the HOA is perfectly entitled to foreclose on you for failure to pay your assessments. To avoid foreclosure you will have to pay whatever the HOA claims you owe even if you dispute it. It's quite insidious and the more equity in your home, the greater the target you become.
You might ask for and examine a copy of the management company contract with the HOA. You might also ask the Board whether the HOA purchased its insurance from Alliance (i.e., Association Policyholders) and whether the management company gets a cut of any claim paid under the policy (10% - this is not a deductible. Imagine your State Farm agent that sold you a policy telling you that he intends to get a 10% cut of any proceeds in the event a claim is paid).
Now if nothing else, as people become informed about this management company and its predatory practices, they will stay away from HOAs managed by the company. The risk to your investment and your home is just too great. Keep in mind that it costs the HOA (and thus the management company) nothing to simply declare that you owe $$$ in fines and thus the HOA's agent can create a "debt" out of thin air.
For my part, I will do whatever I can to warn people about this management company's business practices. This priority of payment scam is designed to extort money from residents under threat of foreclosure on their home and it costs absolutely nothing for the management company to accuse you of being in breach. Think about living in a neighborhood where the police are compensated via the fining process and there is no due process or equal protection. When frustrated homeowners begin getting "notices of violation" the management company instructs board members to tell residents that "they're disturbing their neighbors". People get mad and their normal reaction is to complain about all the neighbors they perceive to be violating some restriction. "Report your neighbor". The management company just eats it up because they profit tremendously from this chaos. Board members are inherently immune from this threat. You will witness people getting edgy about others driving by their homes or slowing in front of their homes. Remember the management company is incentivized to dream up as many violations as possible.
As more and more people become aware of this management company and the HOAs it operates in, they will tend to stay away. You might think about your quality of life and your ability to resell in a neighborhood managed by this management company.
Last edited by IC_deLight; 04-07-2008 at 02:34 PM..
If you watched Fox 7 News last night, you would have seen how Alliance is unlawfully threatening to fine people for satellite dishes in a Georgetown HOA.
Of course Alliance will say that it is just the agent for the HOA. However, Alliance knows full well that restrictive covenants requiring prior approval or that prohibit satellite dishes under 1 meter in diameter have been unlawful since 1996 [Telecommunications Act of 1996 and FCC OTARD regulations].
Alliance was threatening this woman with fines for a satellite dish that has been in place for 7 years (well past the statute of limitations for enforcing a restrictive covenant), located in the back of her house (not visible from street), and which can't be prohibited by law anyway. If Alliance convinced the HOA to adopt the priority of payment scam, then Alliance was threatening the residents with foreclosure if they refused to comply.
Due to the priority of payment scam and private fining, Alliance will threaten people with the loss of their home in order to collect monies relating from the fining process for "violations" of restrictive covenants that Alliance knows are unlawful and have been unenforceable for over a decade. The subject of the Fox news report is just an example of a recent victim. You may have heard her tell the reporter that this is happening to many others in her subdivision.
If you don't want to live in an environment where you are constantly being threatened with foreclosure for allegedly breaching covenants that 1) don't exist, or 2) have been declared unenforceable by either state or federal law, then don't move into a neighborhood managed by this organization.
I live in West Cave Estates. It's a great place to live, but beware of Alliance Management. The HOA pays them to enforce the deed restriction, which sound like a plus, and would be if they had the slightest amount of intelligence. There are now signs in the neighbhood that say "Dump Alliance", so their days may be numbered.
LCRA did not have enough people that were willing to pay $10,000 each to bring the water to the subdivision. I think in time they may bring it in here anyway, they stoped it at Deer Creek which is located behind West Cave.
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LCRA water line
