So I went to Walmart today and look what I found... (Magnolia: fit in, apartment)

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by ndcairngorm

While one could debate the merits of paper vs. plastic all day long from different viewpoints, I do think it is the height of silliness to call getting a plastic bag for your purchases a "right." Austin is trying to take your rights away? Give me a break. Read your statement below, Austin97, and see if in retrospect you don't think it's a bit out of the box.

What I like about what the legislature (and the courts) have done is they are ensuring that we have more rights. When Austin is trying to take rights away, the legislature is stepping in to stop Austin. Here are some, not all passed:

Bag ban

It actually isnt a right of a consumer to have a free bag, it is the right of businesses to be able to conduct their business as needed. Bans certainly have a place for products that have a demonstrated negative impact. I dont think any data was used to determine the value/impact of a bag ban.

Ill add that Im against the smoking ban.

[cBach]

Originally Posted by Austin97

It actually isnt a right of a consumer to have a free bag, it is the right of businesses to be able to conduct their business as needed. Bans certainly have a place for products that have a demonstrated negative impact. I dont think any data was used to determine the value/impact of a bag ban.

Ill add that Im against the smoking ban.

Paying for something that you get is not a "ban". If you wanted to pay for a plastic bag and you wanted to throw it away afterwards, that was your loss of $.25. Meanwhile I'll reuse my cotton/poly mix, I think I'm going on 200 times for some of my bags, btw.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by cBach

Paying for something that you get is not a "ban". If you wanted to pay for a plastic bag and you wanted to throw it away afterwards, that was your loss of $.25. Meanwhile I'll reuse my cotton/poly mix, I think I'm going on 200 times for some of my bags, btw.

They actually banned disposable bags, there was no option to get them at any price. I would have been fine with a tax which would be used to pay for cleanup of the bags. We use instacart and because HEB doesnt have disposable bags, I get 3-4 new "reusable bags" each time we order. We have hundreds of them ( and end up throwing them away).

[Trainwreck20]

*shrug* With the old bags, you would have more hundreds of disposable bags to throw away.

Btw, the smoking 'ban' was a godsend to waitstaff and servers. Whether you believe or not in the health affects of second-hand smoke, the presence of the much more pleasant air is wonderful. Somewhat akin to a noise ordinance. I don't care whether it prevents me from getting cancer (that would be a nice side-affect), I just like the clean air.

[rangergrit]

Originally Posted by cBach

Even McD's uses recycled cardboard for their hamburger

Thus the taste.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by rangergrit

Thus the taste.

Recycled Beef?

[riaelise]

I don't care what the business uses but when I make purchases of a sufficient quantity, I expect a free bag. Period.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

*shrug* With the old bags, you would have more hundreds of disposable bags to throw away.

btw, the smoking 'ban' was a godsend to waitstaff and servers. Whether you believe or not in the health affects of second-hand smoke, the presence of the much more pleasant air is wonderful. Somewhat akin to a noise ordinance. I don't care whether it prevents me from getting cancer (that would be a nice side-affect), I just like the clean air.

Since you bring it up, I thought that the compromise crafted years ago by the Austin City Council regarding smoking was admirable, but those who said they just didn't want to be exposed to second hand smoke showed their true colors when that happened. The compromise was that smoking was banned in restaurants and bars in Austin. However, if a business owner felt it was in his or her business's best interest to allow smoking, they could jump through a lot of hoops, pay a hefty fee, and be designated as a smoking allowed establishment. One of the hoops was to have a big sign on the front door notifying anyone entering that it was a smoking allowed establishment so that anyone who did not want to be exposed to second hand smoke could instead patronize one of the hundreds of other non-smoking establishments in the city. Sounds fair, right? People who liked a cigarette with a drink or after a meal, and people who smoked and wanted to work in a place that allowed that (you didn't think that all waitstaff and servers are nonsmokers, did you? If so, let me assure you you are sadly mistaken) had a few places to go without bothering those who didn't want to be exposed to second hand smoke.



You should have heard the screaming and hollering from the anti-smoking crowd. The mask was off, those who smoked and wanted to patronize or work at such places no longer had that option, and it was clear that they were all about controlling others, not about avoiding second-hand smoke. Sadly, they made enough noise that a very reasonable compromise was overturned.



I don't smoke. But I know rank hypocrisy and need to control when I see it.

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

(you didn't think that all waitstaff and servers are nonsmokers, did you? If so, let me assure you you are sadly mistaken).

Interestingly (to me, anyway) was that in the two different places I worked long-term (5+ years each) in the 80s and 90s, almost no one on staff smoked regularly...even then, it was 'aging out' - the older managers and a few other older waitstaff/tenders smoked, but the younger crowd not so much. A few would smoke with drinks, but the bars with outdoor decks became (more) popular with smokers. Fortunately in Austin, those places a numerous. I suspect a few just stopped smoking in public places, though

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

and it was clear that they were all about controlling others, not about avoiding second-hand smoke. Sadly, they made enough noise that a very reasonable compromise was overturned.



I don't smoke. But I know rank hypocrisy and need to control when I see it.

And I don't disagree, and it lines up very closely with the environmental crowd - they are really trying to stop growth, not save species or water quality. Any reasonable proposal to protect species/water quality is shot-down out of hand as 'not enough'.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Interestingly (to me, anyway) was that in the two different places I worked long-term (5+ years each) in the 80s and 90s, almost no one on staff smoked regularly...even then, it was 'aging out' - the older managers and a few other older waitstaff/tenders smoked, but the younger crowd not so much. A few would smoke with drinks, but the bars with outdoor decks became (more) popular with smokers. Fortunately in Austin, those places a numerous. I suspect a few just stopped smoking in public places, though




And I don't disagree, and it lines up very closely with the environmental crowd - they are really trying to stop growth, not save species or water quality. Any reasonable proposal to protect species/water quality is shot-down out of hand as 'not enough'.

Both of my kids (now adults, one in his 40's, the other in her 30's) were servers, and as Mama J I got to know some of their fellow workers and heard stories. Their experience was pretty much the flip side of yours.