My Most Joyful Morning ever - Austin Scooters Burning! (Atlanta: 2015, high school)

[Trainwreck20]

While I don't care about the scooters, there is some toxic battery crap going into the air .

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

While I don't care about the scooters, there is some toxic battery crap going into the air .

That's true. Furthermore, it turns out they are actually not even better for the environment.

This guy did an extremely deep, detailed analysis that factors in the redistribution pollution, which is all these guys in trucks driving around collecting and repositioning the scooters at night. This doesn't account for any catching on fire, but I'm sure it happens more than just this one instance in Austin.

https://chesterenergyandpolicy.com/2...ycle-analysis/

[Trainwreck20]

Oh, I don't need any analysis to know they aren't good for the environment, but honestly, very little we do is 'good' for the environment and that is not a valid argument for or against them. A decoy at best.

As pointed out, they don't replace car trips, they are additional transport that replaces, more often than not, walking.

That said, I did not dig into his analysis in great detail, but he uses 'average' car emissions. Car emissions during rush hour are much higher than during typical driving due to the start/stop nature of the traffic. In fact, the REAL purpose of hybrid vehicles is to reduce emissions, not improve gas mileage. A hybrid car may reduce emissions by an order of magnitude more than they improve gas mileage. If a rush-hour car trip is replaced by a scooter, there is a much bigger benefit than compared to the average.

Additionally, the writer focuses on green house gas (GHG) emissions. That is the hot topic currently, but the immediate concern for most urban areas is ozone, which is spatially and temporally specific. The emissions during recovery and distribution occur during the non-ozone times and essentially do not contribute to ozone pollution. Therefore, any scooter trip that replaces a car trip during rush hour is a huge 'win' from an ozone standpoint.

I would have to look in more detail to see if the writer considered reusable energy sources when comparing pollution - gasoline cars (the vast majority on the road) are 100% carbon fueled. There currently is an excess of energy available at night via the wind turbines - they have to shut some down at night - that would essentially be used to recharge the scooters. It is almost pollution-free in that regard.

You can get even more esoteric and look at the calories not burned while riding on a scooter and the reduced caloric intake (theoretically, anyway ). Or the long-term infrastructure effects which results in fewer people owning cars and an overall reduction in car trips that would result. A thousand other aspects to work in there somehow....

My personal take (environmentally) is that the batteries and leakage to the environment (fires, in the lake, in a landfill, in a backyard...) are the biggest issue.

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Oh, I don't need any analysis to know they aren't good for the environment, but honestly, very little we do is 'good' for the environment and that is not a valid argument for or against them. A decoy at best.

As pointed out, they don't replace car trips, they are additional transport that replaces, more often than not, walking.

That said, I did not dig into his analysis in great detail, but he uses 'average' car emissions. Car emissions during rush hour are much higher than during typical driving due to the start/stop nature of the traffic. In fact, the REAL purpose of hybrid vehicles is to reduce emissions, not improve gas mileage. A hybrid car may reduce emissions by an order of magnitude more than they improve gas mileage. If a rush-hour car trip is replaced by a scooter, there is a much bigger benefit than compared to the average.

Additionally, the writer focuses on green house gas (GHG) emissions. That is the hot topic currently, but the immediate concern for most urban areas is ozone, which is spatially and temporally specific. The emissions during recovery and distribution occur during the non-ozone times and essentially do not contribute to ozone pollution. Therefore, any scooter trip that replaces a car trip during rush hour is a huge 'win' from an ozone standpoint.

I would have to look in more detail to see if the writer considered reusable energy sources when comparing pollution - gasoline cars (the vast majority on the road) are 100% carbon fueled. There currently is an excess of energy available at night via the wind turbines - they have to shut some down at night - that would essentially be used to recharge the scooters. It is almost pollution-free in that regard.

You can get even more esoteric and look at the calories not burned while riding on a scooter and the reduced caloric intake (theoretically, anyway ). Or the long-term infrastructure effects which results in fewer people owning cars and an overall reduction in car trips that would result. A thousand other aspects to work in there somehow....

My personal take (environmentally) is that the batteries and leakage to the environment (fires, in the lake, in a landfill, in a backyard...) are the biggest issue.

Yeah, agreed, there are many different ways to assess whether something is "good" or "bad".

My main complaint is that it turns downtown, which I frequent regularly for running club and entertainment, into a place that is harder to enjoy than before. It seems very frenetic and disorganized and less safe, whether driving or on foot. This has me very upset.

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Yeah, agreed, there are many different ways to assess whether something is "good" or "bad".

My main complaint is that it turns downtown, which I frequent regularly for running club and entertainment, into a place that is harder to enjoy than before. It seems very frenetic and disorganized and less safe, whether driving or on foot. This has me very upset.

Totally agree.

I do find the e-bikes (as opposed to scooters) to be less 'offensive', maybe because there are fewer of them, but they also seem to say off the sidewalk, they have a basket (giving them additional functionality), and people tend to stand them up out of the way - I guess because they are bigger and they feel guilty dropping them in the middle of the sidewalk? I have considered getting my own e-bike, as I think I could commute into work relatively easily then (there is a hell of an elevation change and I am not getting any younger..). The problem with the rental ones is that I would never have one at my door in the morning .

Very out there (and not really proposing it), the concept of a car-less downtown area is also a theoretical possibility. Satellite parking areas with scooters, bikes, pedi-cabs, handicap transport, things not even though of yet, would be a possible end-point. There are myriad ways to create a 'non-internal combustion' downtown that would work marvelously, but the process of getting from here to there is the problem. There is very little in-between.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Why would you assume I'm Christian, or that I care about "Sunday"? And, it's not "someone's loss", it's a big corporation that brazenly and preemptively dumps these scooters in cities across the US without permission. Regardless, I doubt you'd see Jesus riding one of these things if he was around.

I do care about safety, quality of life, aesthetics, and a well governed city in which to reside. An event like this is a good thing. It hopefully represents one more step toward getting serious attention on the issue and tighter restrictions or an outright ban.

I also saw that another idiot was seriously injured on a scooter downtown today. I don't wish for that for anyone, no matter how stupid they are, but it doesn't surprise me. There will be more injuries and deaths as long as these ridiculous devices are allowed by our City Council to be used on our streets and sidewalks of Austin.

I know Atlanta has these, San Fran, Austin. Im sure most major cities by now have them - but when you say without permission, as in they are literally just showing up in central business districts and dumping them off with no permission from the city to do so?

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I know Atlanta has these, San Fran, Austin. Im sure most major cities by now have them - but when you say without permission, as in they are literally just showing up in central business districts and dumping them off with no permission from the city to do so?

That is how they started, and there was no specific requirement to get permission. Now, most cities are starting to have some regulation.

[turf3]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

As pointed out, they don't replace car trips, they are additional transport that replaces, more often than not, walking.

.

Until you find a 1" bump on the pavement with those teeny little wheels and do a full face plant, at which point the ambulance becomes your alternative to walking.


There are damn good functional reasons why bicycles and mopeds are well-established modes of transportation all over the world and skateboards and skateboard derivatives aren't.


And mixing people on motor vehicles (because that's what they are) traveling at 10-15 mph with people walking on city sidewalks is a recipe for lots of accidents and injuries.

[cBach]

This thread is: 1st world problems

[riaelise]

i saw teh funy in this thread

Yet one more reason why I like my part of town, not a damn scooter in a five mile radius. I instead walk a mile and get good exercise.