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The amount of parent involvement is closely related to the money the family makes.
Now, you can argue chicken/egg all day, and there is likely some merit to either argument.
This.
I’ve read your argument Steve. And Austin97 I dated a Japanese man for four years so I’m very familiar with the Asian attitude when it comes to education. But despite what y’all say it still circles back to money and nothing here has dissuaded me from thinking that. As you said Steve people with means are able to afford tutors, cram schools, what have you, whereas those Del Valle kids you mention are likely low income and if they struggle then what? They just keep falling behind. Additionally people with higher incomes tend to have a stable home life-or that’s what some would like to think-and therefore there are less “problem” kids. You’d be a problem too if you hardly saw your mom because she worked long hours or the home was abusive. Kids can focus on learning coming from affluent households because they’re not faced with the same distractions that those who have not have to deal with - gang infested neighborhoods, no support systems, and as you said Steve the school system has lower expectations which in my opinion is the coup de grace. These kids have so much stacked against them from the jump, so no foisting them into Eanes isn’t going to make much of a difference. Poverty is cruel and seemingly in perpetuity for many. When you say homogeneity that translates to a school devoid of lower income people and all the burdens that go along with that. You can refute that somewhat but all of those things parental involvement/culture whatever...there’s a strong correlation to income, except when we’re discussing magnets. It’s a primal urge as a parent to provide the best for our children, that’s why many buy into the best school districts that have the most favorable demographics. Even when ppl ask for recommendations here many will steer people away from a poor school chain that is likely higher percentage of lower income people. It’s sad but it is what it is. As for Asians, even if they are poor on paper, they pool their resources so that they can buy a home in the best area they can afford that has good schools. They don’t usually have to deal with drive bys and getting assaukted just walking home from school. Also the kids don’t have the poverty mentality that permeates in this country, which is a real problem. One can also say that Africans are also similar in attitude when it comes to education, because they approach education with an immigrants mindset. My father was raised in a two bedroom flat in a poor section of Panama City, and there five children. All of them are successful, including those who immigrated here.
It is chicken and egg so I’m just gonna say this and move on.
Thank you Steve - well put. i'm not saying that wealth isn't part of why Eanes is a great district, but it's a cop-out that some here just point to "Money", or that all things lead back to money - as the primary reason why Eanes excels. It's a very narrow way of looking at the issue.
It ALL comes back to money.
Money to pay for the tutors
Money to pay for private schooling for the "problem" student that needs more attention
Money to pay for proper healthcare and nutrition when kids are younger (leads to better brain development)
Money to have the flexibility to have a SAH parent that can be involved in everything
The list keeps going on and on... it's about the money!
Its funny how you guys insist that it is all about money, regardless of evidence that it is not all about the money.
This graph shows data from NYC. There is some correlation to income and achievement, but you can see that asians have higher academic achievement irrespective of income level when compared to other minorities with similar incomes. Within groups you can definitely see a small trend based on income, but that is a smaller effect compared to culture.
Essentially asians in general keep their kids out of sports, from dating, and from working. The extra time goes into studying.
Its funny how you guys insist that it is all about money, regardless of evidence that it is not all about the money.
This graph shows data from NYC. There is some correlation to income and achievement, but you can see that asians have higher academic achievement irrespective of income level when compared to other minorities with similar incomes. Within groups you can definitely see a small trend based on income, but that is a smaller effect compared to culture.
Essentially asians in general keep their kids out of sports, from dating, and from working. The extra time goes into studying.
The question wasn't about NYC. It's funny that you keep insisting that it's ethnic makeup. True, Asians (in general) buck the socio-economic trend for a generation or two, after which... it really becomes about the money. I went to middle and high school in an area that was very ethnically diverse, but almost all 3rd and 4th generation. We had 18 Nguyens in my graduating class of 200. While we had a killer badminton and tennis team, I'd say the average GPA didn't vary much from the spread the remainder of the class saw. Those that came from the wealthier areas dd much better than those that came from the blue collar parts.
The question was why does Eanes have such high averages. It's because they have the money to support a lifestyle that is conducive to this.
The amount of parent involvement is closely related to the money the family makes.
Now, you can argue chicken/egg all day, and there is likely some merit to either argument.
Coming from two working parents that work a S***-ton, I'm fairly certain that if we made less money (ie less demanding jobs) we would spend (much) more time with our children.
Perhaps what you are referring to are people who are close to poverty and have to work 2 or 3 jobs in order to make ends meet - and I agree with you there. But for the "middle" I don't necessarily agree with you, and certainly you insinuating that 'you make a lot of money therefore you have more time to spend with your kids' is patently false. Generally, wealth (that is earned through hard work and not passed down through the generations) is earned through hard work and a lot of hours - and that generally doesn't magically stop when you have kids.
It's amusing to see the lack of critical thinking.
I never said 'more time' with your kids or less time, although the people that have to work way over 40 hours a week definitely fall into that category. But looking at time - the people that can't afford to order out, or go out, or buy partially or fully prepared meals, lose a ton of time that no one in Eanes does. The people that mow their own yards, clean their own house, and fix the broken dryer themselves have less time. The kids that start working at 16 because the money is needed have less time.
Now, it isn't like you win the lottery, move to Westlake, and your kid becomes a star - it isn't a 'point in time' money thing, but a history of money over time - families with money tend to access better pre-natal care/nutrition, their infants receive better care and nutrition, they go to a day care with trained caregivers, they join Girls Scouts or Boy Scouts and learn social skills and critical thinking.
Are parents a part of the equation? Of course! But it is harder to be that parent when you learned your parenting skills from the previous generation of poor parents. There is also genetics, to some extent. Some children will be geared to academic success, others will not. Eanes vs. Del Valley will make minimal difference (although some, perhaps).
The real advantage of Eanes is the barrier to entry for so many people that don't make enough money to live there. Because there are very few families with a low history of achievement capable of entering Eanes ISD, the children do not have that negative influence.
My kids are in AISD in SW Austin. I honestly don't see any advantage for us in being in Eanes. My oldest has fairly severe learning disabilities but is getting outstanding attention and loves school. My youngest will do great (most likely) in any school she goes to that is at least 'decent' in terms of minimal distractions (no gang fights or whatnot). She actually would probably do better without the potential influence of 'too much stuff' that she might be exposed to, although that is based on anecdotal stories. I have actually heard that Lake Travis ISD can be worse than Eanes. At the end of the day, I like that they are in a relatively diverse school. My 9 y/o has a circle of best friends that are black, Indian, Hispanic, and Caucasian. I know it could happen in Eanes, but just due to statistics, it isn't as likely. It won't show up in test scores, but I think it will help her in life.
The question wasn't about NYC. It's funny that you keep insisting that it's ethnic makeup. True, Asians (in general) buck the socio-economic trend for a generation or two, after which... it really becomes about the money. I went to middle and high school in an area that was very ethnically diverse, but almost all 3rd and 4th generation. We had 18 Nguyens in my graduating class of 200. While we had a killer badminton and tennis team, I'd say the average GPA didn't vary much from the spread the remainder of the class saw. Those that came from the wealthier areas dd much better than those that came from the blue collar parts.
The question was why does Eanes have such high averages. It's because they have the money to support a lifestyle that is conducive to this.
Is it the money that creates the work ethic or is it the work ethic that creates the money?
Money is clearly correlated with success, but is it causative? I still firmly believe that working smart and hard is taught and leads to financial success. That is propagated to the next generation.
Money can help make things easier, but working hard can overcome the money advantage.
Again, if minorities can't be successful because they dont have money, then they might as well quit now.
This constant drumbeat of you cant be successful because of externalities is what causes people to not even try.
Is it the money that creates the work ethic or is it the work ethic that creates the money?
Money is clearly correlated with success, but is it causative? I still firmly believe that working smart and hard is taught and leads to financial success. That is propagated to the next generation.
Money can help make things easier, but working hard can overcome the money advantage.
Again, if minorities can't be successful because they dont have money, then they might as well quit now.
This constant drumbeat of you cant be successful because of externalities is what causes people to not even try.
Again. Not the issue. You're twisting words.
Why are Eanes' averages higher? Because they have more opportunity. There hasn't been one single statement that a lack of opportunity cannot be overcome.
Its funny how you guys insist that it is all about money, regardless of evidence that it is not all about the money.
Essentially asians in general keep their kids out of sports, from dating, and from working. The extra time goes into studying.
and that's a good thing???
you get people like my ex-boyfriend, whose mom took "tiger mom" to another level, who attended cram schools in Japan, and ended up being very imbalanced in just about every other aspect.
in addition to book knowledge, i want my daughter to have real life knowledge and experience, as I have. So yes, she will be getting a job.
again, chicken and egg. I'm pretty certain that the wealthier Black and Hispanic kids do well on standardized tests, and I'm almost 100% certain that their parents are heavily invested in their kids' education. And sorry, other than NYC, there are few poor Asians. It's not the same as blacks and hispanics in the ghettos because many Asians don't live in ghettos unless they're maybe first generation and even then they pool their resources so that they move to an area that's at least lower middle class.
BTW, in my middle school in NYC, Blacks and Hispanics comprised 50% of the student body. The school was still acclaimed and performed well on standardized tests. A quarter of the students in the gifted classes were Black. And you want to know why? because the development that fed into the school was comprised of solidly middle classed people - the transit workers, the cops, the teachers. Back then, whether you were Black, Puerto Rican, Dominican, whatever, you had the strong family and community.
Conversely, I attended a "school within a school" similar to LASA for grades 9-12. That was a real eye opener regarding income. The student body of the main campus was overwhelmingly Black and Hispanic, but the difference was those kids mostly came from public housing throughout the city. Not surprisingly, there was gang violence, teen pregnancy, low graduation rate, etc.
So we have two groups, same races, different income levels. The school itself didn't encourage the kids or give them much opportunity and teachers passed kids just to get them out of their classrooms.
Money provides opportunity, and there also tends to be higher expectation when it comes to performance. You're saying that people shouldn't use income, etc. as a cop out because that dissuades people from working hard, and I can agree with that. But I've also witnessed the struggles that those who are lower income have to overcome.
Last edited by riaelise; 09-23-2019 at 10:01 AM..
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