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Old 06-20-2020, 10:55 AM
 
6,871 posts, read 12,248,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Little strip malls are easier & cheaper to build than mixed use development. That’s why some investors prefer that route. Not me.
Unfortunately it is why the city should ban them on the east side to force walkable, dense, mixed use, transit oriented neighborhoods.

This is a case where capitalism, and each person optimizing for themselves, does not end up with the best solution for everyone. Mixed use/walkable actually creates more value for individual landowners in the long run.
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Old 06-20-2020, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
9,228 posts, read 9,185,889 times
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That is the city’s prerogative - build it like that and they will come.
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Old 06-20-2020, 02:17 PM
 
6,871 posts, read 12,248,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
That is the city’s prerogative - build it like that and they will come.
I think the city wants a sense of "fairness" and that everyone should "suffer". I think spreading it around is better than putting it in the near east side. But even better is putting it on the far east side where no one lives yet.
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Old 06-20-2020, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
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Yep, west of 130 should definitely be a no-go.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
11,802 posts, read 10,593,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
He didn’t say NASA was looking for land there in the 1940s. He said what would become Michoud.
By “they”, I think he means the Federal government which was expanding scientific facilities all over the country and establishing new ones.

But yes, NASA was established in the late ‘50s, after the Soviets launched Sputnik, to develop the US space program including Project Mercury.
Yes thank you, I said "what was to become" because I didn't want to nitpick all the history, if I did that I could write a novel on it.

But, for clarification, Andrew Higgins (who is responsible for winning the war according to Eisenhower) was the guy that made the amphibious landing craft that landed at Normandy for the liberation of France.

Higgins Industries got a contract from the Federal Government to produce C-76 cargo planes at Michoud as well as landing craft. During the Korean War Michoud made engines for Sherman and Patton tanks.

During the Cold War as NASA ramped up and Michoud became under management of NASA in 1961. It was used for S-IC first stage of Saturn V rockets. It was also home to the first stage of Saturn V, SA-515.

The MAJORITY of the time, however, it served as manufacturing facility of ET (external tank).

Now I'm sure somebody will nitpick this apart, because citydata loves to be pedantic.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
11,802 posts, read 10,593,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangergrit View Post
History lessons should use true facts. What is the source of your facts?

I see many errors.

For example, NASA started in 1958. JFK made 'moon' speech in 1961. But NASA looked for Michoud land in the 40s?

The original plant was to build the first two stages of the Saturn V rocket. Not the Space Shuttle External Tank (ET).

There were no NASA engineers there. There were engineers from Boeing and Chrysler there. But it was an "assembly facility", so most workers were labor. And the engineers were almost all from far away, like Seattle. Almost none lived "uptown". Most lived in NO East or Gentilly.

Please don't give "history lessons" without references.
Please see my other response. Yes I know the full history but the point of my argument was to show that industrial development in poor areas does not produce a middle class area.

You failed to see the forest for the trees and instead nitpicked every facet of the minor details of what I typed to miss the big picture.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
11,802 posts, read 10,593,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin97 View Post
Unfortunately it is why the city should ban them on the east side to force walkable, dense, mixed use, transit oriented neighborhoods.

This is a case where capitalism, and each person optimizing for themselves, does not end up with the best solution for everyone. Mixed use/walkable actually creates more value for individual landowners in the long run.
I've noticed there's an evolution of development from rural to urban. It goes like this:

Phase 0: rural land: farms & ranches
Phase 1: industrial land mixed with rural land
Phase 2: industrial/rural/low cost suburban/low cost strip malls mix
Phase 3: industrial/rural/low cost suburban/low cost strip malls/big box stores
Phase 4: industrial/low cost suburban/middle class suburban/big box stores/strip malls/apartment complexes

Now, if all ingredients are right (luck and at least 20 years) then ....

Phase 5: all elements above with mixed use developments
Phase 6: decommissioning of industrial, gentrification of low cost housing, high rise apartments
Phase 7: high rise office towers, MU developments, and upscale housing

Del Valle will be lucky to get to Phase 4.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
9,228 posts, read 9,185,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Yes thank you, I said "what was to become" because I didn't want to nitpick all the history, if I did that I could write a novel on it.

But, for clarification, Andrew Higgins (who is responsible for winning the war according to Eisenhower) was the guy that made the amphibious landing craft that landed at Normandy for the liberation of France.

Higgins Industries got a contract from the Federal Government to produce C-76 cargo planes at Michoud as well as landing craft. During the Korean War Michoud made engines for Sherman and Patton tanks.

During the Cold War as NASA ramped up and Michoud became under management of NASA in 1961. It was used for S-IC first stage of Saturn V rockets. It was also home to the first stage of Saturn V, SA-515.

The MAJORITY of the time, however, it served as manufacturing facility of ET (external tank).

Now I'm sure somebody will nitpick this apart, because citydata loves to be pedantic.
Yeah, saw the Higgins landing craft story in a documentary.

I knew a guy who was a welder that helped put together Liberty ships for Henry Kaiser on the West Coast during WW2. They put him on the job after four (4) hours of welding training when he got out of high school in 1943. He said some of those ships he welded together probably came apart by themselves in moderate seas. Lol
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
11,802 posts, read 10,593,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Yeah, saw the Higgins landing craft story in a documentary.

I knew a guy who was a welder that helped put together Liberty ships for Henry Kaiser on the West Coast during WW2. They put him on the job after four (4) hours of welding training when he got out of high school in 1943. He said some of those ships he welded together probably came apart by themselves in moderate seas. Lol
If you're ever in New Orleans visit the WWII Museum, they explain how wonderful Higgins was. You could take two days to see the museum if you're into stuff like that (I am). They keep adding on additional wings although I'm sure COVID-19 probable have impacted their expansion plans because I doubt they are getting many visitors now.
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:24 PM
 
6,871 posts, read 12,248,817 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Please see my other response. Yes I know the full history but the point of my argument was to show that industrial development in poor areas does not produce a middle class area.

You failed to see the forest for the trees and instead nitpicked every facet of the minor details of what I typed to miss the big picture.
An anecdote doesnt make your case.

You can look around the country at aircraft and auto manufacturing plants and there are always middle class neighborhoods that grow up around them. Boeing, GM, GE all drove the creation of middle class neighborhoods.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/b...t-poverty.html

Quote:
Marlin is a thriving factory in a place that, over the last half-century, factories have fled — first to the South, and later to Asia. That flight haunts the United States perhaps most in its urban areas — especially neighborhoods that once housed the nation’s working class — and helps explain why many African-Americans in particular today live in poverty in metropolises like Baltimore, Detroit, Newark and St. Louis.
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