Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've searched the forum, and didn't see a clear answer to this question.
It seems that many believe St. Andrews and St. Stephens are the "best" private schools in Austin (with the term "best" loosely defined as academic rigor, college placement stats for top universities, etc.)
My question is whether anybody has a perspective about how these two schools compare to the truly "best" high schools, such as those featured on lists like this one, published a few years ago by the Wall Street Journal: WSJ.com
Maybe I've lived in NYC too long, and drank too much of the uber-competitive educational kool-aid, but when I think of the "best" schools, I'm thinking of schools like Dalton/Collegiate/etc. in NYC, Lab/Latin in Chicago, Sidwell Friends/Georgetown Day in Washington DC, or the traditional boarding schools like Phillips Exeter/Lawrencville/etc.
To keep this thread of interest to families also considering Austin public schools, it seems that the Eanes/Westlake track gets top marks in Austin, so I'd also ask how those schools compare to the comparable "best" schools--public or private for that matter. (For top public schools, I'm thinking of places like Hunter/Stuvessant/Brooklyn Tech/Bronx Science here in NYC, etc.)
I also think that it is worth comparing the "top Austin schools" to the other widely recognized "top" private schools in Texas, for example the Hockaday/St. Marks schools in Dallas, or the St. Johns school in Houston. (I know a number of St. John's graduates and have been uniformly impressed with their intellects and drive, for what it's worth. Less so of the Hockaday kids I know.)
I realize this is a difficult question to answer, because the only truly informed opinion would come from somebody who had personal (or close hearsay) experience with both top Austin schools, and one of the "top national" schools.
Still, I thought I'd throw out this question for consideration.
To keep this thread of interest to families also considering Austin public schools, it seems that the Eanes/Westlake track gets top marks in Austin......
Don't know how they compare to NYC schools (or St. Marks, St. Johns or St. Stevens), but statistically the Westwood "track" is superior to the Westlake track. Probably more diverse as well.
My opinion is based on the past couple of years Newsweek "Best HS" articles & also the quantitative info from this site:
But I'll throw this out there: I've know several families (with origins out of state) who sent their kids to St. Stephens when they lived in Austin but who put their kids in public schools when they moved to the NYC suburbs (NY, NJ, and CT).
Remember: Austin is just an over-grown big town (look at the census figures for 1950, only 132,000 residents). Also, welcome to Texas, Texas is a low-tax, low-service state and it has been for generations. State-wide public education has never been a priority. (And there's some pretty ugly history there if you go looking).
So a broad generalization, even the best public school in Texas does not measure up with the very best public schools in IL, MN, CT, NJ, NY, etc.
BUT the differences can be pretty marginal and whatever measure you are using can be fairly suspect. And the differences can be less for so-so students then for the very top students. And none of this can predict which school will be best for a particular child.
PLUS you cannot even begin for a second to compare any open enrollment district even Eanes with schools that have competitive admission for their public high schools. What is it 90% of the kids who take the test to get into Hunter (NYC) fail? There is nothing comparable to Hunter or Bronx Science or Stuvessant in terms of competitiveness and history.
There is the LASA magnet program in AISD with competitive entry that is roughly comparable to Stuvessant etc. All of the students come from the top 10% of students in AISD but there is none of the hyper-competition NYC frenzy to get in.
Compared with NYC, Austin is laid back indeed and that extends to education. (You'll even find the occasional parent who talks about sending their kids to a lesser HS to increase their chances of graduating in the top 10% and thus ensure their admission to UT!, you'll find many more parents who are simply interested in a "good enough" education. But you can also find some top-notch public and private schools here with much less of a hothouse, competitive educational culture. I have taught at the university level and I have seen kids who went through insanely rigorous HS programs (usually public) who just burned out on the pressure and gave up once in college. So there are risks to highly competitive HS too.
Regarding St Stephens and St. Johns, they are roughly comparable but again Austin as a smaller less wealthy place comes in. St. Johns has a longer history, more exposure to oil wealth, etc. St. Johns students tend to be wealthier, the faculties are comparable and the quality of education fairly equal. St Johns has a huge endowment however while St. Stephens is still building theirs.
Anyway, there are no easy answers in education! Even if you had the magic numbers and perfect comparisons in front of you, that in no way can tell you what school is best for your particular child! For that you have to learn about your kid and learn about schools and visit places in person.
St. Stephens will tell you up front that their admission strategy is different from St. John's or St. Mark's in that they are not all about the "best and the brightest" but rather a diverse student population that brings varied interests, skills, etc to the table. (Now perhaps St. Johns and St Marks say the same thing, I don't know!). Having said that, I would still say that the majority of the SS student population is extremely bright and driven, but there are definitely those that are more average students, with perhaps some other great gifts to offer, that attend as well. I know many kids there and I can tell you first hand there is a range scholastically.
We have a friend whose son attended SS for middle school and then transferred to Exeter Academy for high school. He loved St.Stephens but comments that the student population at Exeter is more uniformly bright and academically strong. Of course, Exeter is probably the extreme to make comparisons to, but that's the closest first hand example I can think of. The same boy (who is exceptionally bright) felt that at times the classes at St Stephens couldn't move as quickly as those at Exeter because the student population wasn't as uniformly academically strong. Having said that, he gives high praise to St. Stephen's faculty, teaching strengths, and their ability to bring out the best in kids who might beat to a different drum.
If you compare the college admissions list each year, you'll see St Stephens and St Andrews do have kids that get into Harvard, Yale, etc., but not every year. Some years there are no kids that are accepted to some of the "ivy" schools. Did they not apply? My guess is not. On the other hand, most of the prestigious prep schools in larger cities routinely send kids to those schools every single year (I volunteer with one in another city so happen to have firsthand knowledge).
It's always hard to make these comparisons. No doubt SAS and SS are very strong schools, as are several public high schools and some of the other private schools here in Austin. It comes down to educational experience you are looking for....if you are looking for education of the whole child, there are so many factors to consider beyond academics alone.
I totally hear the OP. Just moved from NYC with a daughter who was in one of those top tier preschools that cost more than the University of Texas.
The best an worst of Manhattan is it's private schools. They are fabulous, if you can afford them, get into them and mingle with the uber rich. Not much else compares.
I've searched the forum, and didn't see a clear answer to this question.
It seems that many believe St. Andrews and St. Stephens are the "best" private schools in Austin (with the term "best" loosely defined as academic rigor, college placement stats for top universities, etc.)
My question is whether anybody has a perspective about how these two schools compare to the truly "best" high schools, such as those featured on lists like this one, published a few years ago by the Wall Street Journal: WSJ.com
Maybe I've lived in NYC too long, and drank too much of the uber-competitive educational kool-aid, but when I think of the "best" schools, I'm thinking of schools like Dalton/Collegiate/etc. in NYC, Lab/Latin in Chicago, Sidwell Friends/Georgetown Day in Washington DC, or the traditional boarding schools like Phillips Exeter/Lawrencville/etc.
To keep this thread of interest to families also considering Austin public schools, it seems that the Eanes/Westlake track gets top marks in Austin, so I'd also ask how those schools compare to the comparable "best" schools--public or private for that matter. (For top public schools, I'm thinking of places like Hunter/Stuvessant/Brooklyn Tech/Bronx Science here in NYC, etc.)
I also think that it is worth comparing the "top Austin schools" to the other widely recognized "top" private schools in Texas, for example the Hockaday/St. Marks schools in Dallas, or the St. Johns school in Houston. (I know a number of St. John's graduates and have been uniformly impressed with their intellects and drive, for what it's worth. Less so of the Hockaday kids I know.)
I realize this is a difficult question to answer, because the only truly informed opinion would come from somebody who had personal (or close hearsay) experience with both top Austin schools, and one of the "top national" schools.
Still, I thought I'd throw out this question for consideration.
St. Andrews/St. Stephens are part of the Southwest Preparatory Conference, made up of prep schools in Texas and Oklahoma (yes, St.John's and Hockaday are a part). I think that St. A/S are just as rigourous as the rest of the SPC. I would encourage anyone considering the two schools to look at their websites and see where their kids go to college- it's a pretty impressive list. As far as comparing them to East coast prep schools, I guess it's like any other comparisons (health care, restaurants, museums, real estate, etc....)between a medium sized city like Austin and NY or DC.
Somebody described the NYC private school system as a "hothouse" and that's definitely a spot-on description. I always have to be on guard against getting caught up in the achievement-oriented culture here, and remember that NYC private schools are an echo chamber of like-minded, type-A, neurotic over-achievers obsessed with pedigree and status. At the same time, there's no doubt in my mind that if you can get your kid into a school like Dalton, and you can afford the tuition, and your kid would like the school, it is hard to justify anything lesser, simply because of the fabulous educational opportunities available there.
I also agree with the comment that Texas public schools are, on average, the results of a tax system and perhaps a public policy indifference to top-tier education. So I'm equally reluctant to go with public schooling as the de facto choice for our kids. And since, as somebody noted, Austin is a smaller city with a laid-back culture, the lack of the NYC obsession on education is probably even more pronounced.
I did check out the admissions pages for St. Andrews and St. Stephens, and frankly, while a handful of kids did gain admission to the top private universities, most did not. I'm not going to push my kids to go to Princeton from the day they are born, but at the same time, if my kid is smart enough to get in, and wants to go, I want that opportunity available to him/her.
It's a problem for which there probably isn't a perfect solution. I guess the bottom line is that if I want to send my kid to Dalton or Hunter, I need to stay in NYC.
Somebody described the NYC private school system as a "hothouse" and that's definitely a spot-on description. I always have to be on guard against getting caught up in the achievement-oriented culture here, and remember that NYC private schools are an echo chamber of like-minded, type-A, neurotic over-achievers obsessed with pedigree and status. At the same time, there's no doubt in my mind that if you can get your kid into a school like Dalton, and you can afford the tuition, and your kid would like the school, it is hard to justify anything lesser, simply because of the fabulous educational opportunities available there.
I also agree with the comment that Texas public schools are, on average, the results of a tax system and perhaps a public policy indifference to top-tier education. So I'm equally reluctant to go with public schooling as the de facto choice for our kids. And since, as somebody noted, Austin is a smaller city with a laid-back culture, the lack of the NYC obsession on education is probably even more pronounced.
I did check out the admissions pages for St. Andrews and St. Stephens, and frankly, while a handful of kids did gain admission to the top private universities, most did not. I'm not going to push my kids to go to Princeton from the day they are born, but at the same time, if my kid is smart enough to get in, and wants to go, I want that opportunity available to him/her.
It's a problem for which there probably isn't a perfect solution. I guess the bottom line is that if I want to send my kid to Dalton or Hunter, I need to stay in NYC.
I wouldn't write off the Austin public schools so quickly. While as a whole, Texas public education is not what many other states are, there are some outstanding public schools here that routinely send students to the top ivy-league schools every year. My spouse is an admissions rep for one of the ivy-league schools and can tell you that schools like the LASA magnet, Westwood, Westlake and the IB @ Anderson send far more kids to schools like Harvard, MIT & Stanford than the smaller private schools here do (of course, they are bigger schools, my point only being that there are incredible advancement opportunities at many of the top public schools). The kids from these schools who are applying for admission to the top-tier schools are definitely not "laid-back" by any stretch of the imagination!
Of course, you may have other reasons for not wanting to choose Austin public schools, but it would be a mistake to assume the top-tier schools are out of their reach. The data just doesn't support that.
But I would agree that the overall school dynamic is nothing like NYC....just saying the possibilities are there for those that want it.
Don't know how they compare to NYC schools (or St. Marks, St. Johns or St. Stevens), but statistically the Westwood "track" is superior to the Westlake track. Probably more diverse as well.
My opinion is based on the past couple of years Newsweek "Best HS" articles & also the quantitative info from this site:
FWIW: Westwood is a very acedemically competitive school, and that could be good and bad. There is IB program and AP classes. It usually has a number of National AP scholar award winners.
Small brag: my kid was one, and graduated with 29 college credits. I pay fairly high taxes to RRISD, which can be considered expensive tuition, when you consider the 18 yrs I have been paying them.
edited to add: and my kid was not a top performer at that school. The westwood student population is by and large self selected (by parents moving to the area specifically for schools) highly motivated, high achieving group.
Last edited by chauncy; 01-06-2009 at 11:40 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
