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Actually it was considered a "cotton state". Texas was one of the 7 original charter members of the Confederacy. Only in South Carolina was the vote for secession higher than in Texas. The "anti-secessionist" sentiment in Texas -- not to be confused with northern sympathy -- was no different than that of the other states of the Lower South.
Thing is, less than 20 years before that Texas was it's own country. And a decade before that, it had been part of Mexico and Spain for more than 140 years. So how much time really was there for it to be "part of the south"? Not much, as I see it:
Texas Under Spain. 1690-1821
Texas Under Mexico. 1821-1836
Texas as a Republic. 1836-1845
Texas in the US as part of the Western Territories. 1845-1861
Texas in the Confederacy. 1861-1865
Texas in the US. 1865-Present
Now, I know there are many people who identify with the Southern culture in the eastern part of the state.. Which I attribute more to being a border state to a "true Southern" state (Louisiana). You see the similar effect along the border with Mexico -- lots of culture and identification with the nation across the border.
Thing is, less than 20 years before that Texas was it's own country. And a decade before that, it had been part of Mexico and Spain for more than 140 years. So how much time really was there for it to be "part of the south"? Not much, as I see it:
Texas Under Spain. 1690-1821
Texas Under Mexico. 1821-1836
Texas as a Republic. 1836-1845
Texas in the US as part of the Western Territories. 1845-1861
Texas in the Confederacy. 1861-1865
Texas in the US. 1865-Present
Now, I know there are many people who identify with the Southern culture in the eastern part of the state.. Which I attribute more to being a border state to a "true Southern" state (Louisiana). You see the similar effect along the border with Mexico -- lots of culture and identification with the nation across the border.
Very interesting when you look at it that way, atxcio.
Thing is, less than 20 years before that Texas was it's own country. And a decade before that, it had been part of Mexico and Spain for more than 140 years. So how much time really was there for it to be "part of the south"? Not much, as I see it:
Some good points, Axtico, but the same could be asked/said of any other state which is generally considered part of the American South. In other words, when did Mississippi become considered "Southern? Or Arkansas?
All "Southern states" at one time were either territories or belonged to another nation...
The "ethos" of the "South" formed around 1835 or so with the nullification crises. When Texas entered the Union it was considered part of the South just as naturally -- in national mindset -- as was Ohio part of the "West".
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Texas Under Spain. 1690-1821
Texas Under Mexico. 1821-1836
Texas as a Republic. 1836-1845
Texas in the US as part of the Western Territories. 1845-1861
Texas in the Confederacy. 1861-1865
Texas in the US. 1865-Present
No disrespect -- in the least-- intended, but you seem to be suggesting that the "Southern" connection of Texas to the "South" consisted of the Confederate experience, which was a short four years. As it was, Texas was just taken as part of the South from its entry into the Union and was never considered different by national definitions of the time. It culminated in the WBTS.
There are lots of thing about our state that makes it a region of its own. But it is Southern when it come right down to it. The connection with the Confederacy is only a small part of it. We talk Southern American English. We eat catfish and black-eyed peas and love BBQ. Not much of what it taken as traditionally "Texan" does not have Southern roots and origins...
Taken as a whole, Texas has more of the feel of a southern state than, say, a southwestern state. Austin is more liberal in general than the rest of the state, which makes it a bit of an anomaly. I've always found people in Texas to be very much like the people in Arkansas (I have relatives there), very friendly, but very southern in attitude. Same accents, too, but a different southern twang than you hear in the deep south of Mississippi or Alabama.
No disrespect -- in the least-- intended, but the flaw in the argument you seem to be making is that the "Southern" connection of Texas to the "South" consisted of the Confederate experience for a short four years. And that that was it. You proceed from a premise that Texas was never considered part of the South save a short Confederate era. When in fact, starting from the entry into the Union at all it was part of "the South". It culminated in the WBTS...and those legacies trend down to as that we eat black-eyed peas on New Years Day! Texas is part of the South. And was ALWAYS considered so. Texas is Texas, to be sure...but Southern, in essence.
There are lots of thing about our state that makes it a region of its own. But it is Southern when it come right down to it. The connection with the Confederacy is only a small part of it. We talk Southern American English. We eat catfish and black-eyed peas and love BBQ. Not much of what it taken as traditionally "Texan" does not have Southern roots and origins...
All great points, (I stand corrected on the cotton state issue) but Texas is about 5-6 times bigger than any of the other southern states, with some pretty distinct regions. For example, the Big Bend/Trans Pecos region feels NOTHING like the south. If anything, it feels more Western because of the commanche history.
All great points, (I stand corrected on the cotton state issue) but Texas is about 5-6 times bigger than any of the other southern states, with some pretty distinct regions. For example, the Big Bend/Trans Pecos region feels NOTHING like the south. If anything, it feels more Western because of the commanche history.
Nothing at all to disagree with here! Especially the trans-pecos part of Texas. I gotta visit it sometime, fer gosh sakes!
No disrespect -- in the least-- intended, but you seem to be suggesting that the "Southern" connection of Texas to the "South" consisted of the Confederate experience, which was a short four years ...
There are lots of thing about our state that makes it a region of its own. But it is Southern when it come right down to it. The connection with the Confederacy is only a small part of it. We talk Southern American English. We eat catfish and black-eyed peas and love BBQ.
No disrespect taken. I know you are a veteran of many debates of this topic, and your points are always well made and valid... that said...
I for one don't buy completely the food argument; although the Southern staples are consumed here, and maybe even in large quantities -- I suspect we eat more hamburgers & Tex-Mex than catfish and grits. We do love our BBQ, but it's different here than in the Southern states. In America overall, we eat foods of all nationalities -- some even are very popular -- but it doesn't make us less American. Just so happens in Texas that we have had access to cuisines from the traditional American, to Mexican, to Southern.
That we speak "Southern American English"... well, I guess that is true. But you can again observe that closer to Louisiana, you'll hear it much stronger than you will in the rest of the state. In the big cities, you might not hear it at all. In El Paso, I'd guess people don't sound any different from the folks in New Mexico... Would that be the case in a true Southern state? Or would you hear the same amount of Southern American English influence at both the eastern and western borders?
Anyway, the fact that Southern American English and Southern food exist here, even in abundance, doesn't necessarily make Texas a Southern state. Or, to put it another way -- the existence of the things mentioned above doesn't negate the fact Texas is a Western state. Just like French food and Cajun dialect doesn't negate the fact that Louisiana is a Southern state.
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Not much of what it taken as traditionally "Texan" does not have Southern roots and origins...
Not sure about that. What is more associated with Texas culture than the cowboy? Or ranching? Or oil? The dusty ghost town, the sheriff whose gun is the law (ok, those are stereotypes, but still very much "taken as traditionally Texan")... Are those things Southern, or Western?
No disrespect taken. I know you are a veteran of many debates of this topic, and your points are always well made and valid... that said...
Thanks in turn for a very civil and intelligent reply, Atxcio!
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I for one don't buy completely the food argument; although the Southern staples are consumed here, and maybe even in large quantities -- I suspect we eat more hamburgers & Tex-Mex than catfish and grits. We do love our BBQ, but it's different here than in the Southern states. In America overall, we eat foods of all nationalities -- some even are very popular -- but it doesn't make us less American. Just so happens in Texas that we have had access to cuisines from the traditional American, to Mexican, to Southern.
I was being a bit light-hearted -- so to speak -- with the "food argument". However, I stand by its validity in many respects. That is to say, that most of what is considered "home cooking" in Texas is mostly Southern in origin. As per the specifics, welllll, I wouldn't use hamburgers as an example as they are pretty uniform and popular all over the country! I would imagine that even in Mississippi that hamburger joints are just as popular as catfish! LOL
You are correct in that Texas BBQ is different in many aspects from that of the southeastern states. Mainly, that it tends to be beef rather than pork. However, the tradition itself is basically derived from that of the South. By that I mean that BBQ in Texas is a "process" and the state is part of the so-called "Barbeque Belt" Here is a cute little video which sorta sums all this up:
Definitely one of the things that make Texas unique is the influence of other cultures. Sorta like Louisiana in that regard with its Cajun/Creole. Probably the premier example in Texas is Tex-Mex. In fact, you made me hungry. I suddenly feel an urge for enchilada's this evening!
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That we speak "Southern American English"... well, I guess that is true. But you can again observe that closer to Louisiana, you'll hear it much stronger than you will in the rest of the state. In the big cities, you might not hear it at all. In El Paso, I'd guess people don't sound any different from the folks in New Mexico... Would that be the case in a true Southern state? Or would you hear the same amount of Southern American English influence at both the eastern and western borders?
I guess the best way to answer this one is to note that there are four or five major speech regions in the United States.
And all have many variations within. IMHO, I think the problem in this area is that many start from the premise that a "Southern accent" is to be measured against that old "moonlight and magnolias" variety spoken in parts of the Deep South. As it is, what is called Southern American English has countless sub-dialects within. People in eastern Tennessee sound totally different from someone in southern Alabama, for instance. Anyway, as concerns Texas, the most recent and extensive study done concluded that "the most basic explanation of a Texas accent is that it is a Southern accent with a twist."
I always thought that was a great metaphor for the state itself in terms of influences. That is, predominantly Southern, but with noteable characteristics of other cultures as well.
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Anyway, the fact that Southern American English and Southern food exist here, even in abundance, doesn't necessarily make Texas a Southern state. Or, to put it another way -- the existence of the things mentioned above doesn't negate the fact Texas is a Western state. Just like French food and Cajun dialect doesn't negate the fact that Louisiana is a Southern state.
Of course Texas is a "western state". So is Kansas and so is Wyoming. Just as Georgia is an "eastern state" as is New York or Indiana. The key thing though (at least IMHO) when considering regional affliliations is how deep, historically and culturally do these things go?
The "West" can be considered in two different lights. That is, the "West" as frontier era...and the "West" of today as a true coherent region. Most of Texas is VERY much part of the post-bellum frontier West. I will be the first to agree with that. At the same time though, in terms of basic history and culture, Texas has very little in common with the Rocky Mountain or Interior SW states...which make up the "West" today. Texas is the "western South"...just as Kansas is the "western Midwest". Both are western states, but do not share much at all with each other beyond a superficial "frontier era" And neither with a Utah or Wyoming.
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Not sure about that. What is more associated with Texas culture than the cowboy? Or ranching? Or oil? The dusty ghost town, the sheriff whose gun is the law (ok, those are stereotypes, but still very much "taken as traditionally Texan")... Are those things Southern, or Western?
Again, you are very correct as to popular associations. Hollywood has had a lot to do with this. Just as it has the notion that Texas is one big wasteland of desert and cactus! LOL But seriously, even the Texas cowboy has direct Southern roots. The Texas cowboy tradition was primarily a "drover" type...whose prototype was the cattle drovers of the Old South. Which only makes sense as it was the stock (no pun intended) from which most came. This as opposed to the "Mexican vaquero" whose herding and tending traditions more influenced the true West and Southwestern states.
For all its iconic legend (and I love those old western movies as much as anyone!), the main staple in Texas was not cattle and ranching, but cotton and farming. Go back a few generations and while one will definitely find a true cowboy, they will likely find a hundred to one those Texans who made their living off of some variety of the Southern cotton culture.
Anyway, I have rambled on enough. Thanks again for your good and astute replies, Axtico. Regional/Cultural studies and such have always facinated me, and I enjoy an amicable discussion with those who can engage likewise.
And of course, really, there is no "right" answer anyway as to regional affiliation. Beyond, of course, that Texas is TEXAS!
I think what ultimately makes Austin interesting to me, is that it feels like a crossroads of sort. Where the plains meet the hills meets the desert meets the south meets Mexican culture meets ranching culture meets the university and the city. Mix in some rivers and lakes and you've got the makings of an interesting place. If you take a cue from the flora present here, you can feel that, I think.
And I say Texas is a Southern state, not a Southwestern state. LOL
Not trying to be a smart-aleck...but by the same token of that we have some Mexican influences? Louisiana has a lot of French influences!
Leaving that one alone for a minute...when you say it is "Southwestern"...do you mean it is "Western South" (blends of South and western frontier) or "southern West" (as like NM or AZ...and dominated by Hispanic and Indian culture)? Southwest can mean different things...
Hey, you can say what you want.
Geographically, Texas is South and West in the continental US.
Texas has more Hispanic and Native American influence than, say, North Carolina or Maine.
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Especially the trans-pecos part of Texas. I gotta visit it sometime, fer gosh sakes! 
However, I stand by its validity in many respects. That is to say, that most of what is considered "home cooking" in Texas is mostly Southern in origin. As per the specifics, welllll, I wouldn't use hamburgers as an example as they are pretty uniform and popular all over the country! I would imagine that even in Mississippi that hamburger joints are just as popular as catfish! LOL 
