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My 11th grader is going to be touring colleges this summer. She just finished TAKS tests this week, which she declared unbelievably simple and easy. She has difficult believing that there are kids who can't pass these tests.
Steve
There are a dozens places to volunteer in Austin where she could meet and understand the kids who struggle with these tests.
There are a dozens places to volunteer in Austin where she could meet and understand the kids who struggle with these tests.
Thanks for posting this. It troubles me that some teenagers are so self absorbed that they cannot think outside of their own experience. My eight year old realizes that kids learn at different speeds, have different challenges, and have different resources available. That didn't happen magically. Whenever he would make a judgmental comment about another kid in his class not reading very well, we'd discuss it.
"In a long time" is colloquial and is fine on a message board of this type. Would you correct one of your clients like this? What about one of your friends in conversation?
I think it should, because our school systems don't always know best. Lest we forget how recently it was that being of a particular color meant belonging to a particular school, or that wearing an armband meant an act of suspension-worthy disobedience.
The situations are just as bad when money comes into play.
Like it or not, for the majority of our history, public schooling in the States has not worked up to the potential that it has been met with. So as far as I am concerned, if a school thinks that a child so be required to do so much as know it's 1-2-3's and A-B-C's, it better have a damn good reason. I applaud the effort that teachers put forth every day in the face of sometimes overwhelming odds, but there isn't a school administration in the land that has earned that same trust.
And yes, the demographics do matter. For instance, when critical thinking problems are catering scenarios that may favor the understanding of a particular ethnic group. This, to me, does not qualify as a "standard" of any sort. As hard as it is to believe, the gap between demographics really is that wide.
Demographics clearly have a huge impact. But that doesn't mean tests are not applicable to people of different origins. Do you think that the countries so admired for their public schools don't use tests or adjust them for demographics? I don't think the requirements in Japan or Denmark are adjusted for a wide variety of learning experiences.
"In a long time" is colloquial and is fine on a message board of this type. Would you correct one of your clients like this? What about one of your friends in conversation?
No, I normally wouldn't mention it. You're failing to recognize the irony of the context.
With regard to "self-absorbed" kids for whom standardized tests are easy, are you suggesting they have a duty to tutor kids who learn slower, and that if they don't, that this represents a moral shortcoming, or "self-absorbed" behavior?
No, I normally wouldn't mention it. You're failing to recognize the irony of the context.
With regard to "self-absorbed" kids for whom standardized tests are easy, are you suggesting they have a duty to tutor kids who learn slower, and that if they don't, that this represents a moral shortcoming, or "self-absorbed" behavior?
Steve
Well, not Jennbic, and I got the irony of the context, and I don' t think that your daughter or other kids who find standardized tests should tutor other kids but I would hope that she realizes that those tests are easy for her for a variety of reasons: starting with a middle-class background that ensured a healthy pregnancy, prenatal care, an intact family that values education, private education for 8 years, parents who have excellent verbal, math, and social skills, as well as the ability and willingness to research high schools and choose a place that would be a good fit, the ability to attend a school in a wealthy area where no one comes to school without breakfast, in a home where books, magazines, and computers were available, with parents who ensured she got enough sleep, and had a balance of predictable structure to her days as well as enrichment activities.
If she had experienced any learning difficulties (ranging from articulation of words, sensory issues, attention deficit, dyslexia, autism, etc) she had parents with the means and ability to identify such issues, and find resources in the community to provide services early to address them. Not to mention the financial resources to overcome them with intensive intervention early.
It is humbling to meet and work with kids (and families) who don't know where they are going to sleep that night or if there will be food in the morning, or who have those basics covered but don't know with which parent they will spend the day or what will happen. Does it affect the ability to absorb new information, make connections, and solve problems? Absolutely it does. The lack of structure, predictability, and security is stressful and creates a neuro-chemical storm that inhibits thinking (consider how a stressful closing affects the ability of your clients to make good decisions, now imagine that level of stress is chronic and constant).
I'm pretty sure that you know this Steve (I will never forget the posts that you wrote about your wife's brother, ever) and I hope that you will pass the realization that you and your family are blessed beyond measure to your children.
Undoubtably, your daughter is smart but she is lucky too.
Well, not Jennbic, and I got the irony of the context, and I don' t think that your daughter or other kids who find standardized tests should tutor other kids but I would hope that she realizes that those tests are easy for her for a variety of reasons: starting with a middle-class background that ensured a healthy pregnancy, prenatal care, an intact family that values education, private education for 8 years, parents who have excellent verbal, math, and social skills, as well as the ability and willingness to research high schools and choose a place that would be a good fit, the ability to attend a school in a wealthy area where no one comes to school without breakfast, in a home where books, magazines, and computers were available, with parents who ensured she got enough sleep, and had a balance of predictable structure to her days as well as enrichment activities.
If she had experienced any learning difficulties (ranging from articulation of words, sensory issues, attention deficit, dyslexia, autism, etc) she had parents with the means and ability to identify such issues, and find resources in the community to provide services early to address them. Not to mention the financial resources to overcome them with intensive intervention early.
It is humbling to meet and work with kids (and families) who don't know where they are going to sleep that night or if there will be food in the morning, or who have those basics covered but don't know with which parent they will spend the day or what will happen. Does it affect the ability to absorb new information, make connections, and solve problems? Absolutely it does. The lack of structure, predictability, and security is stressful and creates a neuro-chemical storm that inhibits thinking (consider how a stressful closing affects the ability of your clients to make good decisions, now imagine that level of stress is chronic and constant).
I'm pretty sure that you know this Steve (I will never forget the posts that you wrote about your wife's brother, ever) and I hope that you will pass the realization that you and your family are blessed beyond measure to your children.
Undoubtably, your daughter is smart but she is lucky too.
Well, I am Jennibc, and exactly what she said.
I don't think they have a moral obligation to tutor other kids, but I do think by the time a kid is in the 11th grade he or she should be able to think outside of themselves and their experiences. And if they cannot, then they are self-absorbed. That goes for adults that don't have the imagination to think about the world in terms other than how they see it or experience it.
Look, my son is very smart and does really well on standardized test, especially the ones that purport to measure IQ, but he also knows that some kids don't do as well as he does for a myriad of reasons. I think because both my husband and I came from poorer families, we have worked really hard to make him realize how much he has and to be grateful rather than to assume everyone else lives the way that he does.
Finally, I didn't find your post ironic, I found it nitpicky that one would attack the use of "in a long time," because it is commonly used and we all understand what it means.
... but I would hope that she realizes that those tests are easy for her for a variety of reasons: starting with a middle-class background that ensured a healthy pregnancy, prenatal care, an intact family that values education, private education for 8 years, parents who have excellent verbal, math, and social skills, as well as the ability and willingness to research high schools and choose a place that would be a good fit, the ability to attend a school in a wealthy area where no one comes to school without breakfast, in a home where books, magazines, and computers were available, with parents who ensured she got enough sleep, and had a balance of predictable structure to her days as well as enrichment activities.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it almost seems as if this standard, garden variety upbringing you describe is something to feel guilty about or apologize for. Yes I, like my peers, try hard to instill gratitude and appreciation in my kids. It's not always easy.
We volunteered for the Christmas Bureau one year, taking a bunch of gifts and food to a "needy" family on the east side. Parked in front was a brand new pickup, still with the red dealer tag on it, and inside was a bigger big screen TV than I'll ever own (and this was about 8 years ago before they became more prevalent). The family seemed appreciative, but the comment of my youngest as we left was "why do they have such a big TV"? To which I replied, "they must not be as poor as we thought". Lesson NOT learned. My kids were confused about the entire purpose of what we were doing. Never did it again.
I use to manage Section 8 housing, and experienced similar "life shocks" regarding the level of relative affluence found amongst "poor" people, regarding their consumer consumption habits, the "stuff" they have, and the entitlement attitude in lieu of work ethic and personal responsibility.
American "poor people" are better off, better fed, have more stuff, more educational opportunities, programs for betterment, safer environments, etc. than most of the rest of the world's population. Most of our American poor are fat, hardly starving, while truly poor people die every year in third world countries, by the millions. While I don't consider myself completely indifferent, I don't spend a lot of time wondering what I could or should do for people who don't want to help themselves.
Also informing my view on the matter is the fact that during Jr. High in San Diego CA (where I grew up) in the 1970s, our school had a huge influx of Vietnamese "boat people". These kids couldn't even speak English at all and immediately became A students. There were no special programs to help them. We weren't even nice to them. They were the poorest, skinniest, scantly clothed, most disadvantaged human beings you could imagine. Yet when given the opportunity, what did they do? They worked their asses off and smoked most of us academically.
So if some American kid, attending a bad public school, suffering through a bad upbringing, lousy parents, poor diet, etc., can't pass the TAKS test, I think the kid isn't trying hard enough or doesn't want to do better. That's probably the fault of the parents, not the kid. But I'm not sure how that becomes a guilt trip to lay on the good, smart kids with normal parents.
And it doesn't change the fact that the TAKS test is a relatively simply, easy test for kids who simply pay attention in class.
Steve
Last edited by austin-steve; 05-01-2010 at 01:48 PM..
Reason: typo
So if some American kid, attending a bad public school, suffering through a bad upbringing, lousy parents, poor diet, etc., can't pass the TAKS test, I think the kid isn't trying hard enough or doesn't want to do better. That's probably the fault of the parents, not the kid. But I'm not sure how that becomes a guilt trip to lay on the good, smart kids with normal parents.
And it doesn't change the fact that the TAKS test is a relatively simply, easy test for kids who simply pay attention in class.
Steve
I don't think anyone is laying a guilt trip on your kid, and it's great to grow up with loving parents and with financial security. My husband and I have busted our butts so that our son could have these benefits. What surprised me though was your comment about how you have a college bound sixteen year old that could not imagine why other kids cannot pass. To me that demonstrates a complete lack of imagination and a degree of self-absorbtion. I am not saying your daughter should feel guilty, but she ought to feel lucky. Those are two different things.
And what if a kid cannot pay attention in class? I did horribly in elementary school and high school but when got to college and law school graduated with A averages. Why? I discovered caffeine and got glasses. I was almost legally blind as a kid but because of neglect didn't have corrective eyewear. It hurt too much to try and follow along in class, I got nasty headaches. Caffeine helps me focus. If I grew up today, I'd probably be put on ritalin. Beleive me, I wanted to do better. It is no fun having teachers yelling at you and telling you that you are lazy.
Would I have been able to pass the TAKs? Most certainly, but English is my first language and the first few years of my life were spent in a stable environment.
My point is that if you step outside of your own experience, it is a lot easier to see how difficult it is for some kids to pass the TAKS even if your daughter or my son has no difficulty at all.
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