Austin, Raleigh, or Nashville (Houston, Dallas: fit in, transplants, real estate)

[silviodante]

Hey there,

I am currently located in the Raleigh area and I'm kind of just confirming that this is the area I want to stay in. I chose to move to Raleigh after graduating college a few years ago, and love it, and am attracted to cities like Raleigh.

I'm just wondering from anyone who has lived or been to both. I hear a lot of great things about Austin... but is it that much different from Raleigh or is there that much more to do that it would be worth leaving family and friends behind?

Another question I have is how southern the Austin area is? Is it mostly relatively liberal transplants?

I am also concerned about the lack of places to go within a day's drive. Here in Raleigh, I can get to virtually the entire East Coast in one day's drive, from New York City to Florida, and anywhere in the Appalachians for recreation. There's also of course the ocean.

I do like the sound of Austin's nightlife, however. My concerns are whether it is relatively U of Texas dominated, and an outsider coming alone wouldn't fit in well. Also, I love live music, but mainly country. Is the live music scene that I hear so much about mainly indie rock/jazz/alternative or whatever? Would Nashville be a lot better for this scene?

I guess the real reasons I see for potentially coming to Austin are:
- better weather than Raleigh (no winter, am I right)?
- better nightlife/live music
- the pride that comes with saying you're from Texas

Reasons to stay in Raleigh:
- family and friends and favorite places all within a days drive on the East Coast
- mountains and beaches
- better job market for me (more alumni connections, very important in law).

Anyone want to weigh in?

[Trainwreck20]

Personally, it sounds like a no-brainer to stay in Raleigh (and I don't mean that in a bad way).
Your positives:

• - better weather than Raleigh (no winter, am I right)?
  Depends on how much you hate the cold. Yes, it is mild here in the winter most of the time, but do you hate the Raleigh winter's enough to flee from them? I have not lived in Raleigh, but I am assuming it is no Chicago or St. Paul in the winter.
• - better nightlife/live music
  Don't know what the music is like in Raleigh, or night life, but 6th street is more geared toward college age people. There is a 'warehouse' district downtown that is more 20 and 30 somethings, too. They are great for young, singles or couples without children, but if you are planning to stay long you will probably 'outgrow' 6th street pretty quick (if you haven't already).
  
  As for music, there is lots. The country scene is definitely the smaller portion, but it has picked up steam in the last few years. I kind of lump that in with the balladeers and folk singers, too. Most of the country music is in the outlying areas and surrounding towns, though.
• - the pride that comes with saying you're from Texas
  Seeing as most people assume I chew tobacco and spit from my horse as I ride around the ranch rounding up the cattle, I found this a mixed blessing on some days . Really, it can be quite strange. Anyway, although I love living here, it is not because it is in Texas, it is because it is home.

Really, your negatives seem to carry more weight than your positives...family, job, and moutains/beaches. There are mountains here (which you CAN drive to in a day, speed limit is 80 now heading west on 10), but they are not like the Smokey Mts. The beach is not like Fl, either.

[mrsengle]

I think I'm one of the few folks here that isn't a huge Austin fan. I'm not against it, but it isn't 'home' for me, and I'm a native Texan. I moved here 5 years ago from Houston. While I haven't been to Raleigh (although my husband and I have looked very closely at relocating there), there are a few questions I'm 'qualified' to answer.

-Is it mostly relatively liberal transplants?

There are plenty, but it wouldn't say 'mostly.' There is a reason they call UT 'Berkley on the Colorado.' Politics never got under my skin until I moved here. Personally, I'm very middle-of-the-road and am respectful of others' views, but I wasn't prepared for the in-your-face attitude I've encountered. This is the biggest reason I want to leave Austin, and I would if I could. I think I'm definitely in the minority on this issue, but it's a hot-button with me. I'm of the opinion that there is a time and a place to discuss/debate politics - that's just good manners. Many of the people I've encountered here don't share that view. I will say, however, that I have very liberal friends who have never brought it up - conservatives as well. I wish more folks in Austin were like the ones I've encountered on this forum - they have an opinion, but appreciate the etiquette that goes along with expressing it. Oh, and be prepared for the bumper stickers: the anti-W sticker, Bush Is A Punk Ass Chump, and my favorite - Who Would Jesus Bomb? M-the Moron is another local favorite. It gets all sorts of fun here around election time, too.

-Another question I have is how southern the Austin area is?

Not very. There are a couple of places with some fine cajun food and delicious chicken fried steak. That's about as Southern as it gets. It's more hip, urban, and young. We do have a junior league though. The word 'Southern' seems to have a negative connotation - biggoted, Bible-thumping, 'narrow-minded,' and uneducated.
There are three big status symbols. Your politics, your education, and your stance (and/or activism) on environmental issues.

Please keep in mind that this is my limited personal experience in Austin. It isn't my intent to ruffle feathers and find fault with others - I know I'm not perfect. These are just the issues that bother me enough to speak up, and I apologize in advance to those that have 'listened' to my opinion on more than one post.

[silviodante]

Really helpful guys, thanks.

Mrsengle: That's definitely the type of stuff I was looking for. Having spent some time in Boston, I found that environment to be completely smothering. As a slightly-right-of-center person, I realized that I am actually the liberal-- in the sense that I like an environment where there is a diversity of viewpoints, INCLUDING Republican, Christian, Southern, whatever. What's the point of arguing about issues like affirmative action and the environment when you are ostracized for having a different, less PC solution to the problem?

Anyways, this isn't a political forum so I'll stop. But I have heard Austin was liberal and just wanted to see how much so. Would you say its San Francisco/Seattle/Boston where people look down on you for being anything but a democrat, or is it more like cities like Atlanta, DC, even New York (outside Manhattan), and Raleigh (I've found) where there is no dominant in-your-face viewpoint? It just seems like the first three cities I mentioned, people move there because it's liberal and thats the environment they want. The others, they are cities in their own right that just happen to have people from across the spectrum.

Thanks again, keep the advice coming.

[twange]

I'll start this response off by fully disclosing that I do not live in Austin yet. I'll be moving there this September from Cleveland, Ohio. I am a musician and avid hiker/outdoorsperson. I have been questioning many of the same issues you are with a few minor differences:

1. Places within a days drive:
This is definitely something I'll have to re-adjust. Currently, I am within 8 hrs of the following cities: NYC, Philly, Chicago, Toronto, D.C. and Pittsburgh with Boston and Montreal about 11hrs away.
But for me, I'm looking for an aesthetic change and excited about the proximity to the following cities: New Orleans, San Antonio, Houston, Santa Fe and Mexico in general...and I suppose even Dallas

2. Outdoor recreation
While the appalachian mountains are beautiful and green, they can be very crowded because of the proximity to all of those before-mentioned cities. I've always been into open spaces, canyons and rugged landscapes, and living in Austin will get me within a days drive of Big Bend National Park, Guadalupe Mountains National Park(both about 8hrs) and all kinds of amazing places in New Mexico, not to mention the Austin area itself which looks to have some really nice recreational opportunities (kayaking, biking, etc...) I think you just have to look for things to do and there they are

3. Music
This is obviously important to me. I'm active in a lot of different artsy areas and that's what is appealing about Austin. My philosophy is that any town that values the arts(and Austin seems to receieve high marks here) will have something for anybody. The folks who live there expect more variety and that kind of scene attracts creative people. I will say this: If you like top 40/pop-country style, I don't think that's Austin's thing. Nashville will have more of that for sure. Austin has more of the Alt-country, singer-songwriter vibe happening.

4. Beaches
I've seen some posts on this forum about how the beaches of Texas are OK at best. I've been to many different beach areas but I'm not an expert. But seeing that I'm from the Great Lakes, being 4 hrs from the Gulf is very appealing regardless of whether or not the beaches compare to Florida, California or South Carolina I have some family that own a place on Padre Island (south I think)and they love it. That's a little farther than Galveston(4hrs) but still fairly close. To me, being reasonably near any large body of water is important.

Leaving family and friends is tough. I'm going through that myself (there is a great recent post about that on this forum), but sometimes you need to feed your soul in ways that familiar surroundings cannot.

Sorry for the novel, but I've been mulling over the same things!

Good luck to you!

[Trainwreck20]

But I have heard Austin was liberal and just wanted to see how much so. Would you say its San Francisco/Seattle/Boston where people look down on you for being anything but a democrat, or is it more like cities like Atlanta, DC, even New York (outside Manhattan), and Raleigh (I've found) where there is no dominant in-your-face viewpoint? It just seems like the first three cities I mentioned, people move there because it's liberal and thats the environment they want. The others, they are cities in their own right that just happen to have people from across the spectrum.

I personally consider Austin to be fairly broad spectrumed, as far as political leanings are concerned. You will definitely find a more politically left culture in the downtown area, but some of the suburbs are much more of a politically right group. For the most part, it is not in your face, but (as mrsengle points out), you are more likely to come across a 'liberal' in your face attitude than a conservative one.

There are probably more independent voters around here than a lot of places. Personally, I have never understood the 'straight party' attitude, since almost every person I know has personal philosophies that contradict at least part of the party platforms somewhere or another.

I live in SW Austin, and have had some very frank discussions on politics and religion over a beer while standing out in the street enjoying the weather. I think most really like the discussion as much as the stance, and I am pretty sure none hold it against me or each other. I believe Austin's 'conservative' suburbs are much more moderate than they get credit for.

As for transplants, you get lots of 'conservative' Californians who are liberal here, and liberal midwesterners who are conservative here. There are people who come to Austin for the 'liberalness', but most come for weather, real estate, and work, I think, and they cover the spectrum.

[Trainwreck20]

As for country music, you can check the calendars for these venues:

http://www.brokenspokeaustintx.com/
The broken spoke is a true dance hall....there are entire families there most nights, from tots on up to grandma. The roof looks like it is about to fall in, so if you are real tall, it can be a problem. Small diner serves food up front. Leans heavily toward country music.

http://www.nuttybrown.com/
Books all kinds of musicians, but most are local and a heavy dose of country. This has been 'upgraded' to include a much large stage for performing...will have to see how it goes. Oh, and it is outdoors, for the most part. Squirt the parrot with the water bottle on his cage and he will love you! Food is passable, with a pretty dang good (if unhealthy) Sunday brunch.

http://www.theshadygrove.com/
The outdoor music starts this week. This place has great food and then stick around for the 'unplugged' music. Somewhat limited seating, but is also one of my favorites for killing a Thursday evening. Catch Ray Wylie Hubbard (I don't see him on the schedule yet) if you get the chance.

Okay, now the good weather has got me excited about some music now .

[mrsengle]

Silviodante - I think it would be a great idea, if you are able, to come out here for a week or two and get a good 'feel' for Austin. Perhaps the law 'sector' harbours a different kind of culture that would be a great fit for you. Austin is a small piece of Texas, and Texas is a BIG state.

You will definitely find a more politically left culture in the downtown area, but some of the suburbs are much more of a politically right group....I believe Austin's 'conservative' suburbs are much more moderate than they get credit for.

That's been my experience, also...Trainwreck just said it much nicer than I did

Don't know what the music is like in Raleigh, or night life, but 6th street is more geared toward college age people. There is a 'warehouse' district downtown that is more 20 and 30 somethings, too. They are great for young, singles or couples without children, but if you are planning to stay long you will probably 'outgrow' 6th street pretty quick (if you haven't already).

Right on the money there, too. It was fun for a couple of years. I still enjoy going downtown for the evening on occassion, but I definitely don't have the youthful vigor I used to have about it. Downtown might be more fun if you worked there and could go for a beer down the street.

[StillMissingNC]

Silvio,

Like Trainwreck20 says, I think that you have made your own case for staying in Raleigh.

"I chose to move to Raleigh after graduating college a few years ago, and love it".

"I am also concerned about the lack of places to go within a day's drive"...Yes, about 3 hours to the Blue Ridge Pkwy and about half of that to get to Wilmington-Kure beach. You can do a day trip to either; whereas, you will not do a day trip to a beach or to the Davis mountains from Austin.(Davis mtns do have their own unique beauty, btw)...ok, you might make if you're a young college student.

"and Raleigh (I've found) where there is no dominant in-your-face viewpoint" ...enough said.

Now, I know that the music scene is weak there in Raleigh, it just never seemed to take off like Austin, probably because there's 50k students concentrated in Austin...my daughter is contributing to the concentration. I understand that Chapel Hill may be a little better, dunno. Maybe you can talk Twange into coming to Raleigh and help get things rolling.

"better weather than Raleigh (no winter, am I right)?" ...well, that's very subjective, but the main thing is that it is a trade of a little real winter weather and 37 days of above 90 degrees for a lousy 108 days above 90 degrees.(yes, there are plenty of people that like that). But with all of the other things that you have going for you there, I would say just put on some heavier clothes.

So with all respect(I hope I'm not sounding like Dr. Phil ), I have to say that I am totally baffled by your post. I feel like there is something that we are not quite getting. Perhaps it's personal, and that's fine, but it seems that a real motivation, at least from your post, is lacking. At any rate, Mrs Engle's or Mr Sengle's suggestion of visiting, not only Austin, but as much of Texas around Austin that you might have time for, would be a good one. Not to imply that you are naive, but many people have stereotype images of Texas whereas a lot of us do not even own a horse. So, if you still serious about this, demystifying some of it would help a lot.

Finally, maybe you have already been dialing into the local "Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary" forum, but I'll mention it anyway. There is a thread that is getting, mostly, recent residents on the forum together for a social at one of the local parks. If you are interested, I think it would be a good place to have a face-to-face discussion about the move you are considering. That thread is:
//www.city-data.com/forum/raleigh-durham-chapel-hill-cary/67802-new-raleigh-area-folks-want-meet.html

In addition, there is one of the posters that is very familiar with the social scene, if you ever have any questions. He goes by NorthRaleighGuy and I'm sure he would pick up your post or would be happy to accept a PM.

Good luck to you.

[Peterpene]

If you're not too concerned about "demographics", I would say that both are good. If you are, Austin by far is the better place. I live in Raleigh, and I'm moving to Austin in 2 months. I and my children won't be viewed as a "devil" as much in Austin. lol