Oil Spill Tracker (Austin: credit, construction, to live)

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots
I disagree. I can say I do not have an insatiable thirst for gasoline. I can say that. This isn't some addiction problem and we don't need treatment for it. We need AFFORDABLE alternatives.

I am dependent on oil. I can say that as well. I'm not in denial. I realize oil rules many facets of my life.

How we all live our lives is dependent on what we have access to. We are controlled by the oil cartel. To think we have "choice" is hogwash, (in my opinion).

Originally Posted by Austin97

You make the choice to live your life exactly how you want to which requires a lot of oil. If you decided instead to move to a place where you could farm, go completely off the grid, teach your children yourself, make all of your own clothes and live a completely agrarian/subsistence lifestyle then you would use zero oil and save a lot of money to boot. So yes you have an insatiable thirst for gasoline based on the lifestyle that you choose to live.

I feel that this discussion has turned unfairly against oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots, who is just expressing her frustration that many Americans have no clear idea how to live their lives without consuming mass quantities of oil. Our government and leaders, many of whom are in the pockets of the energy industries, have created a scenario where it is very difficult to live our lives without consuming mass quantities of oil products.

How is it that the STATE Capitol of Texas doesn't have a decent mass transit system? I am quite certain this is because the "big oil" conservative politicians who are in control of our state want to see us continue buying and consuming large quantities of oil products.

[eileenkeeney]

Originally Posted by Austin97

You make the choice to live your life exactly how you want to which requires a lot of oil. If you decided instead to move to a place where you could farm, go completely off the grid, teach your children yourself, make all of your own clothes and live a completely agrarian/subsistence lifestyle then you would use zero oil and save a lot of money to boot. So yes you have an insatiable thirst for gasoline based on the lifestyle that you choose to live.

I first would have to buy the land, and then I would have to pay property taxes on the land (assuming I am going to do this without breaking any laws).
Then I need some skills I was never taught, and possibly physical strength beyond what I have.
Even if the land was there for the taking, we do not all have the skills to break free of society. So for many of us, our only real other choice is death.

However, most of us can significantly reduce our dependence on oil.

[austinnerd]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

How is it that the STATE Capitol of Texas doesn't have a decent mass transit system? I am quite certain this is because the "big oil" conservative politicians who are in control of our state want to see us continue buying and consuming large quantities of oil products.

Other reasons why Austin doesn't have a decent mass transit system:

1. Mass transit costs tax payer dollars. Many tax payers don't like paying additional for something they feel they'll never use. Many politicians don't like making people pay for things they feel they'll never use (obviously we pay for lots of other stuff that we don't use, but this in particular is always a tough sell).

2. Until recently, Austin has grown horizontally, making it tougher (i.e. more $$$) to create a mass transit system that effectively provides enough coverage to attract increased ridership.

3. Until the traffic somewhat recently got worse, most folks see no need to take mass transit. It takes things like parking lot like traffic, super high gas prices, environmental disasters, etc to get many/most folks motivated enough to want change their behaviour and give up some conveniences.

I think a cabal by fat politicians wearing cowboy hats and boots smoking big stogies with oil company dollars falling out of their two sizes too small jeans intentionally forcing Cap Metro to choose lousy bus lines is the primary reason for Austin's lack of decent public transit.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by eileenkeeney

I first would have to buy the land, and then I would have to pay property taxes on the land (assuming I am going to do this without breaking any laws).
Then I need some skills I was never taught, and possibly physical strength beyond what I have.
Even if the land was there for the taking, we do not all have the skills to break free of society. So for many of us, our only real other choice is death.

However, most of us can significantly reduce our dependence on oil.

my point is that these are choices you make. You say these are skills you were never taught, I would say these are skills you havent chosen to learn. In fact with the internet, learning these skills is easier than ever. Planting a garden does not require massive physical strength, just time.

Any of us could go off on our own to farm or join a commune/coop where people have already established this. For example, you could join an amish community or search google for off the grid communities.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I feel that this discussion has turned unfairly against oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots, who is just expressing her frustration that many Americans have no clear idea how to live their lives without consuming mass quantities of oil. Our government and leaders, many of whom are in the pockets of the energy industries, have created a scenario where it is very difficult to live our lives without consuming mass quantities of oil products.

How is it that the STATE Capitol of Texas doesn't have a decent mass transit system? I am quite certain this is because the "big oil" conservative politicians who are in control of our state want to see us continue buying and consuming large quantities of oil products.

She is judging everyone else while trying to hold herself apart as a victim. This is ridiculous. We all make our choices in life and if we want to we can go off the grid. My only point is that living your life the way you are living it is 100% your choice. No one else dictates how you live.

We dont have mass transit because it is expensive and gas used to be dirt cheap. Up until a few years ago it was under 1.50/gallon. At those prices, there is not a strong impetus for good mass transit.

[austinnerd]

Originally Posted by Austin97

my point is that these are choices you make. You say these are skills you were never taught, I would say these are skills you havent chosen to learn. In fact with the internet, learning these skills is easier than ever. Planting a garden does not require massive physical strength, just time.

Any of us could go off on our own to farm or join a commune/coop where people have already established this. For example, you could join an amish community or search google for off the grid communities.

I think the point you're missing is that one does not have to go to such extremes to make a difference. You make it sound like an all or nothing proposition. Certainly one can start doing things like taking public transport/riding a bike, purchasing fewer items that are packaged in plastic (and other petroleum derived) containers, having small gardens (depending on your space), generally purchasing fewer plastics if other alternatives exist, etc, etc. Even other things like lobbying, helping to make others aware, etc. Lot's of things folks can do that given time and enough folks willing to do it, can help to improve matters vs saying "well unless we can completely eliminate the problem why bother doing anything".

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Originally Posted by Austin97

She is judging everyone else while trying to hold herself apart as a victim. This is ridiculous. We all make our choices in life and if we want to we can go off the grid. My only point is that living your life the way you are living it is 100% your choice. No one else dictates how you live.

Thanks for the laugh. I'm not judging "everyone". I do think that "with great wealth comes great responsibility". I do judge those in power over the rest of us because it affects the rest of us. Also, I'm not holding myself apart from anyone. I consider myself part of a very large group of people.

I can disagree with you and I do. You can label me all you want, think what you want in relation to me and say what you what. It certainly is your right...however misinformed you are. In that sense it is your "choice".

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by Austin97

You make the choice to live your life exactly how you want to which requires a lot of oil. If you decided instead to move to a place where you could farm, go completely off the grid, teach your children yourself, make all of your own clothes and live a completely agrarian/subsistence lifestyle then you would use zero oil and save a lot of money to boot. So yes you have an insatiable thirst for gasoline based on the lifestyle that you choose to live.

I think it is interesting to see ideas like this cropping up again. We have been down this road before after the 1973 oil crisis.

I agree that we all can make choices to reduce our reliance on oil, but I do not agree that an agrarian/subsistence lifestyle is a realistic possibility for most of us.

Large numbers of my generation did exactly what you propose above in the 60's and 70's and very few succeeded. I strongly considered "dropping out" of society. I felt I was at a cross roads and either needed to drop out or buy in and do what I could with my life to try and improve things. I liked technology and the science's so I chose to go to college and try to be a productive part of society.

My roommate at the time took the other path, he tried moving back to Minnesota, bought some land in the woods, built his log cabin, had several children, and eventually realized that lifestyle was too hard and did not offer as much of a future for his children as he desired. So he opted back in and now is a successful realtor in that area.

What many people found is that eking out an agrarian existence is a total false economy. Industrialized farming produces food at very economical prices. The amount of time and effort you have to put into raising your own food is massively more expensive in man hours then working a job to earn money to buy the same amount of food. This is largely why we have seen the disappearance of the small family farm, it cannot compete with industrialized farming.

[G Grasshopper]

I think most would agree that the US can't just go back to an agrarian society. The thought is ridiculous. But I agree with Austinnerd and others that we can make things better by making thoughtful decisions and by purposefully moving away from our oil based economy whenever we have an opportunity. Its not a matter of being free of the oil based lifestyle, but of moving toward other sources of energy that are more sustainable. There are a thousand small choices we can make in our every day lives, and some big governmental decisions that we can try to influence. "We've always done it that way" is no longer an acceptable excuse for inaction. I think the oil spill points out to us that we need to wake up and smell the coffee ... and apply ourselves to this task more strongly. Personally, I think that shopping at farmers' markets and growing what you can at home is a good step, and has many benefits. But that doesn't mean we can all be "self sufficient" and go off the grid.

[CptnRn]

Another interesting chart: