U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Australia and New Zealand
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-18-2008, 01:44 AM
 
1 posts, read 2,860 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

Please help me understand how this can be? In North America and Europe we were always taught that there is a difference in democracies between the Military (Police) and the civilian police then also the local police, state police and federal police (Marshalls, FBI etc.) to ensure that there are checks and balances. For instance although not foolproof, for instance state police were created early in the 20th century to ensure that wealthy new (at that time) industrialists building huge factories in localities that were policed by either elected sherrifs or police chiefs answering to elected mayors, that obviously were not going to risk losing an election protecting an out of town millionaires factory from voting blue collar workers. In issues such as Serpico and others where the local police were corrupt or dirty the state police were able to take over or step in to ensure law and order, the feds the same with state and in a few instances (Chicago, Pittsburgh and New Orleans) also stepped in.

One might say that Australia does have federal police to ensure a checks and balance system in the policing. But even with that how is the policing on the very local level. It is almost a demand from Americans that a local police force be available in suburban communities away from the bureaucracy and redtape of the big city. Is this an issue in Australia. I am wondering if Australia's model is really much more effiecent and better then a Federal-State-County-City model in the U.S. or a Federal-Providencial (eastern Canada)-City in Canada etc.

It just seems that if Philadelphia or NYPD had jurisdiction over their entire state even with more precincts and stations, I could imagine a top heavy, too centralized, non-responsive and cold and remote police force. I could see thou that the appeal of the burbs so common in urban America would be less so in Australia since the police force and manning is pretty much the same in the whole state.

I was a Poli Sci major in college and would love if anyone had data on the differences and pros & cons of this. Any whitepapers or research would be great. Wikipedia is a bit sparse on this other then just stating that Australia has no local cops.

Thanks!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-19-2008, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
9,020 posts, read 12,857,533 times
Reputation: 10985
You're missing all the advantages of having only one buraucracy instead of multiple. You can be more responsive to needs, and keep costs down by being more dynamic with your resources. You have to remember that Australia's population is largely urban, and generally speaking, quite small. The entire population is less than that in several US states.

Canada, with the exception of Ontario has only the RCMP, except for municipalities, and they are the Federal Police as well.

Multiple levels of policing does not ensure checks and balances, just duplication and inefficiencies of service. An independent judiciary usually does it better.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2008, 11:51 AM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,130,587 times
Reputation: 3981
Quote:
Canada, with the exception of Ontario has only the RCMP, except for municipalities, and they are the Federal Police as well.
Point well taken, mikeyyc, but the Canada information is a little off.

Quebec has the Surete du Quebec, and the province of Newfoundland has the venerated Royal Newfoundland Constabulary.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2008, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
255 posts, read 1,147,881 times
Reputation: 155
I did a double-take with your post. Did they wipe out all the local police stations in Australia while I wasn't looking? So I went on the Internet and ... Phew!! they're still there and going strong. Not sure where you got your information from but a quick search was very reassuring. Crime still does have its local champions.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2008, 05:35 PM
 
991 posts, read 1,618,377 times
Reputation: 637
I get where you are coming from and I think you might be a little mistaken about just how bureaucratic Australian police can be. Even though the "police" in Australia are only separated by Federal and State lines the Australian state police are organized in such a way that they are separated in much the same way as in the US and elsewhere.

Each Australian police force is separated into its own separate Local Area Command. These regions are roughly based around population. Each local area command has its own autonomy in respect of rostering, patrol initiatives, etc. However, there are certain statewide issues which have command vested in a single deputy commissioner and command statewide. Highway patrol and state protection group services are ones that come to mind. There is currently a debate whether plain clothes policing and homicide will be directed at a local area command level or statewide. The big difference is that each city doesn't have their own police force with certain local laws that they enforce. The laws are statewide and enforced on a state level. This comes back to the policitcal aspects when Australia was being formed in that the colonies were the most important policitcal divisions and cities and municipal councils were an afterthought.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2008, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
9,020 posts, read 12,857,533 times
Reputation: 10985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1 View Post
Point well taken, mikeyyc, but the Canada information is a little off.

Quebec has the Surete du Quebec, and the province of Newfoundland has the venerated Royal Newfoundland Constabulary.
That's just getting me back for the whole leafs thing isn't it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2008, 07:00 AM
 
2,421 posts, read 6,630,567 times
Reputation: 3844
Nugget is right

Expcept for the Federal Police.... Australian Police Work at a state level only, Police in the cities!, Are a part of their respective State or Territory forces.

Last edited by Kangaroofarmer; 04-19-2008 at 07:21 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2008, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
3,798 posts, read 9,106,014 times
Reputation: 7532
Most countries in the world have local police services staffed by a regional or national police force. I am struggling to remember if I have ever been in a country that had independent locally run and locally staffed police departments for separate cities like we have in the US. I've been to at least 40 countries, and I've never seen anything like all the separate city police departments as in the US. Yes, there are local police offices, but they are staffed by a regional (state or province level) or national run police services organization. It eliminates too much local duplication of resources.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-29-2008, 02:41 PM
 
991 posts, read 1,618,377 times
Reputation: 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by recycled View Post
Most countries in the world have local police services staffed by a regional or national police force. I am struggling to remember if I have ever been in a country that had independent locally run and locally staffed police departments for separate cities like we have in the US. I've been to at least 40 countries, and I've never seen anything like all the separate city police departments as in the US. Yes, there are local police offices, but they are staffed by a regional (state or province level) or national run police services organization. It eliminates too much local duplication of resources.
France has a separate constabulary for each city, the police municipale, the federal police, police nationale and then the paramilitary, gendarmarie.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Australia and New Zealand
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:42 AM.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top