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I don't think the U.S wants to drag Australia into a war but wants to make sure that in the event of war the fighting will stay in the pacific theatre far away from American shores. For that it needs Australia. Basically, let them tear up your country and not mine. I do find it hysterical when reporters asked a government official if hosting B-52 bombers in the Northern territory makes the area a target in a future conflict with China. The response " look at the jobs they create."
Not directly related to the subs which are years away, but the Aus govt announced the purchase of 200+ cruise missiles in the last week. That is a concern as Aus usually (for the last few decades) only bought training quantities of advanced weapons. Makes me worried about what the govt and intelligence services see as the risks over the next few years.
I read an article that put up some comparisons to the projected cost of $360 billion for the subs. Over the same 30 years, NDIS will cost $2 trilion but neither is huge compared to Aus’s gdp of $55 trillion.
We have chatted with a few people over the weekend about all this and most seem to think China is becoming a threat and all this expenditure is needed. We tend to agree with Paul Keating but his view has been rubbished by all and sundry.
I supposed our views are coloured by the fact that we have been to China several times and my sister lived happily there. It felt so safe that it is hard to think of them engaging in military aggression. And if they did, could aggression be stopped by a few submarines, no matter how advanced?
I don't think the U.S wants to drag Australia into a war but wants to make sure that in the event of war the fighting will stay in the pacific theatre far away from American shores. For that it needs Australia. Basically, let them tear up your country and not mine. I do find it hysterical when reporters asked a government official if hosting B-52 bombers in the Northern territory makes the area a target in a future conflict with China. The response " look at the jobs they create."
In my opinion the best thing for Australia would be to buy or develop it's own strategic nuclear missiles.
The greatest defense a nation can have is the assurance of mutual destruction. The same could be done with Taiwan, secretly equip there military with about a dozen medium range ballistic missiles, they then announce there intention to be a free and independent nation forever, fully supported by the western powers.
Yes the chicoms will be extremely ticked off, but the game is essentially over and they will have to get over it.
The Japanese's should do the same.
If nations want to fight, let them do it in the stock markets, and with international trade deals. and not with young men dying on blood covered beaches.
MAD has worked to keep the major world powers from WW3 since the end of WW2, there is no reason it can't stop wars in smaller nations.
In my opinion the best thing for Australia would be to buy or develop it's own strategic nuclear missiles.
The greatest defense a nation can have is the assurance of mutual destruction. The same could be done with Taiwan, secretly equip there military with about a dozen medium range ballistic missiles, they then announce there intention to be a free and independent nation forever, fully supported by the western powers.
Yes the chicoms will be extremely ticked off, but the game is essentially over and they will have to get over it.
The Japanese's should do the same.
If nations want to fight, let them do it in the stock markets, and with international trade deals. and not with young men dying on blood covered beaches.
MAD has worked to keep the major world powers from WW3 since the end of WW2, there is no reason it can't stop wars in smaller nations.
I agree with you. If Ukraine had kept those nukes, the Russians wouldn't have dared to invade. Nukes would keep the CCP from invading Taiwan for sure.
We have chatted with a few people over the weekend about all this and most seem to think China is becoming a threat and all this expenditure is needed. We tend to agree with Paul Keating but his view has been rubbished by all and sundry.
That's what I think too. I can't believe the commentariat has so easily be walked into believing Australia's security is almost completely intertwined with that of Taiwan – an island we don't even recognise as a sovereign state. It's like reds under the bed.
We have chatted with a few people over the weekend about all this and most seem to think China is becoming a threat and all this expenditure is needed. We tend to agree with Paul Keating but his view has been rubbished by all and sundry.
I supposed our views are coloured by the fact that we have been to China several times and my sister lived happily there. It felt so safe that it is hard to think of them engaging in military aggression. And if they did, could aggression be stopped by a few submarines, no matter how advanced?
Your observations are quite correct. How could a few subs stop any Chinese attack on Australia? Simply it would not.
I suspect the basing of American and UK subs at WA's Garden Island, (off Perth/Fremantle) will simply high light that facility as a target in the advent of any war.
As for Chinese aggression, it is most likely to come from an attempt to take Taiwan. The big question would be if USA and perhaps Japan would come to Taiwan's defense?
Obviously there is no guarantee of USA coming to Australia's defense as many Australians seem to expect would happen.
China now becoming the world's second military power will seek to increase Chinese influence over the area of The China Seas to become the principle power of the region.
That will likely require an American rethink with regards to their Asian influence. Probably unwilling to take on the Chinese in the medium term.
Hopefully Australia does not become a prawn in the game being played out and a disposable one at that.
A bit odd, as Australia is selling out on one hand, 1.6 billion $ in property sold to Chinese over a six month period, but on the other hand playing more hard ball, actually calling China out by name as a possible threat, something not likely to have been said even a year ago.
That's what I think too. I can't believe the commentariat has so easily be walked into believing Australia's security is almost completely intertwined with that of Taiwan – an island we don't even recognise as a sovereign state. It's like reds under the bed.
It seems to be related with USA government thinking of any given moment.
I agree with you. If Ukraine had kept those nukes, the Russians wouldn't have dared to invade. Nukes would keep the CCP from invading Taiwan for sure.
Chinese tend to play a longer term waiting game. One can't help but think that the modern China will not be held back for too much longer over Taiwan.
Probably China will bet that America would not risk war at some point for the following reasons.
It cannot 'save' Taiwan. China is too close to prevent invasion and obviously it would be a hopeless case.
The above true as long as USA would not resort to the nuclear option, to which it must be unimaginable that they would resort to that . The Russians have not gone down that path in Ukraine , even on a limited scale, so would America act any differently?
I don't think the U.S wants to drag Australia into a war but wants to make sure that in the event of war the fighting will stay in the pacific theatre far away from American shores. For that it needs Australia. Basically, let them tear up your country and not mine. I do find it hysterical when reporters asked a government official if hosting B-52 bombers in the Northern territory makes the area a target in a future conflict with China. The response " look at the jobs they create."
Yes. We are a target and more so with the rotation of nuclear subs from USA and UK off Perth.
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