Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have been to Sydney, as my brother lives there, and because he is a police prosecutor there he hears alot about social issues and while huge amounts of racially ignited events do take place, as expected in any big city.
In NZ, Asians are not particularly unwelcome. If you walk down to main street of Auckland CBD (shockingly called Queen Street) it almost seems like a foreigner destrict (yes we have those...) in Asia - like Kalsan Road in Bangkok or Itaewon in Seoul. In other words, huge amounts of Asians.
In NZ there is a huge unwelcome towards people who cant speak English or does not bother to mingle with the locals - which many Asians do tend to do, self segregating themselves among ethnic groups going around in a huge non-english-speaking zerg.
(I am sure many of you saw this happen all over the world) Also, NZ'ers, especially Aucklanders, tend to 'take a ****' alot which involves deliberately false sarcasms or quite obviously fake 'intimidation' - almost over-friendly perhaps... If you get over this somewhat strange social phenomenon (which I myself mistook for racism when I was a wee lad) you are sweet. People are interested in people in Auckland in general, even if it is just on the surface.
Toronto does have "racially ignited" events, but they are somewhat rare... definitely infrequent enough that they often make local TV news. The Toronto Area is bigger in population than Sydney, isn't it? From what I've read about Sydney/Oz and racial tensions, there seems to be more than around here.
Aukland, NZ sounds like in interesting place to visit.
Toronto also has some of that self-segregation and many "ethnic areas",
but most of the Toronto Area is pretty comfortably mixed with ethnicities.
In the Toronto Area, people make little-to-no attempt to pretend to be interested in other people.
To try to get a conversation started, most people need a fair bit of time to "warm up" to you first.
When you ask a stranger for the time, a local "knows" that he/she should do it with apologetic body-language,
because we shouldn't be intruding into "their space/life."
This boils down to a feeling that most residents act robotically.
*However, anyone with a foreign English accent, or anyone who sounds like a tourist will receive much more friendly,
perhaps "bubbly" reception from strangers; they don't have to "...play by Toronto's Rules..." with tourists.
I would like to know if anyone else who is non-white who has had similar issues or heard about similar issues from non-white friends during their stay at GC?
Indeed, this is a very interesting thread
Whilst I sympathise with your situation and admit that the treatment you received was very undiplomatic (afterall, you are a tourist), I am incline to think that the treatment you received was more a reflection of how the locals view the local Asian population in the GC region and NOT you personally.
It therefore begs the question...has the local Asian population in the GC region contributed much to the local economy/society other than selling cheap tourists stuff? Have they done much to warrant respect from the locals? Are they well-educated Asians? or are they on "student visas" trying to learn enough English to marry a pensioner for PR status?
Of course, I don't expect you to answer these questions but local social/cultural settings frames people's attitudes toward certain ethnic group.
Of Asian extraction, I had a similar experience when my organisation sent me to work in semi-rural NSW...the locals (and even the staff at my organisation) were behaving in the most uncilivised manner. By the end of my two weeks' stay, the locals were trying to get me to move out there permanently.
Some day, I hope you return to the GC region. I am absolutely certain that once the locals get to know you, they will claim you as their own!
(but you have to drop that kiwi accent - only joking mate )
Whilst I sympathise with your situation and admit that the treatment you received was very undiplomatic (afterall, you are a tourist), I am incline to think that the treatment you received was more a reflection of how the locals view the local Asian population in the GC region and NOT you personally.
It therefore begs the question...has the local Asian population in the GC region contributed much to the local economy/society other than selling cheap tourists stuff? Have they done much to warrant respect from the locals? Are they well-educated Asians? or are they on "student visas" trying to learn enough English to marry a pensioner for PR status?
Of course, I don't expect you to answer these questions but local social/cultural settings frames people's attitudes toward certain ethnic group.
Of Asian extraction, I had a similar experience when my organisation sent me to work in semi-rural NSW...the locals (and even the staff at my organisation) were behaving in the most uncilivised manner. By the end of my two weeks' stay, the locals were trying to get me to move out there permanently.
Some day, I hope you return to the GC region. I am absolutely certain that once the locals get to know you, they will claim you as their own!
(but you have to drop that kiwi accent - only joking mate )
I think these places just don't want to end up like Sydney, (Here it is literally spot the white person in most places) but it is inevitable and they are (understandably, if not fairly) reserved and upset around Asian people
If you want to experience racism, learn chinese and live in China. I lived for over 4 years in Hong Kong and beforehand learnt Cantonese, enough to pass for a Chinese person on the telephone when applying for work - only to turn up to interviews and be told the job has to go to an "Asian person". White people are told to teach English, the resident Indian population in HK (Cantonese speaking) are restricted to being security guards. White people are "foreign devils" (not referred to by their names), black ghosts (for black people) and so on.This is a world class city with living standards high enough to rival any country
Kind of puts your Gold Coast storm in a teacup in prospective, doesn't it?
Oh yeah. I do agree Far Eastern culture (China/Korea/Japan) have a very high degree of racism - mainly because we just have not had much contact - and many historical contacts have been.... catastrophic or at least had a very strong one sided power relationship.
Although you might not be considered "foreign devils", chances are, you will be treated very differently with a mix of awe and fear: Golden Guinnea Pig or Turd right out of the Devil's Arse :P
Although I am somewhat diverging from the main thread - racist job markets are somewhat anavoidable in a capitalist world where profit lords over all - even if the employer is the most liberal person in the world, he has to consider even a single 'customer' that may be racist.... - Just because it is the way it is it doesnt me I agree with it though!! I suffer from Asian stereotypes too afterall lol
Also, YES, it would be interesting to know what the local Asian population has contributed to the whole situation if at all... hmmmmmmm
Are you comfortable with that stereotype? It has alot to do with how you might feel about yourself as well. Just be yourself, eventually people will realize you are an individual and respond to you based on your personality, not your race.
haha I am not trying to be smug, but as I have said, female asians are treated completely differently from male asians... how many asian males do u see with white females as opposed to white males with asian females... I have talked about this issue about many of my white friends of both gender - but this is a whole different can of worms.
On the side note. HE was actually stealing drinks quite bluntly :P I was just the one booted out hoho.
I think many of you are not quite understanding what I am trying to say, or perhaps I am not making myself clear. I was treated in a different way from a white friend of mine which HE noticed. AND I wouldnt have even started this thread if it was as simple as a confidence thing with groups - as what I have been trying to say is a very interesting observation of different treatment when in a very similar circumstances. Sure some might have stopped from socializing with us because there were two of us, but many didnt have a problem with socializing with other bigger groups (more than two) of not particularly more attractive people.
Im sure everyone gets treated like dog faeces there to a degree, but what I have noticed was that Asian males were getting treated ever so slightly differently, in an unwelcoming "wtf are you doin here mate?" way. And I observed other Asian males being brushed off for no apparent reasons while i was there too.
Oh well. It is life i suppose. Minorities are minorities.. some people just know how to hide their feelings better i suppose...
I hate to disappoint you but I just got back from a 2 weeks trip from GC Surfers Paradise and guess what? Both of us are females! We still get the same treatment that you have mentioned - all of the above and more!
We went to watch the Outback show (the name should have given us a clue not to go) simply because it sounded interesting and the tourist centre highly recommended the show. Before the show starts, the guests were led to the bar where there were some light entertainment and people can buy beers and other drinks from the bar. I was q-ing behind this white dude and waited patiently for my turn. When the guy left, and before I managed to utter a word, the bar tender turned to my left and served a white dude who has just arrived. I thought to myself that maybe she didn't see me. After serving that guy, she turned to my right and served another white bloke whom has just got there. I was well-dressed that night and was holding a 50 dollar bill in my hand to buy a 5 dollar beer (so believe me, they know I have money to pay for my drinks). I was so furious, and asked her "am I q-ing at the wrong place or do u guys just penalise people who is well-mannered enough to q?"). She looked at me with disgust and continued to serve that guy.
I am a barrister, studied and stayed in the UK for many years. I have traveled to all parts of europe more than a dozen times and the US for at least 5 times (including Las Vegas & Florida) and I have NEVER had this kind of treatment before. I can imagine this kind of treatment if I were to try to buy a beer in a hick town like Texas but in GC? A well-known tourist place in a bar catered for tourists???
We thought we should not take one bad experience and totally write off GC. Later that night when we were walking around Surfers Paradise (it was Friday and our last night in GC), some teenage boys called my friend names.
We also had a very very bad experience in Beer Garden. We were the only asians there in the bar. You know what? A "kind" aussie guy (who was obviously trying to impress her girlfriend) had to knock on the table loudly to help me get the bar tender's attention.
This is by far the worst experience I have touring in a foreign country.
Almost all the other countries that I have mentioned earlier would NOT place their "anger" or resentment of local asians on foreign asian tourists. They would be able to recognise that we will only be there for a short time as tourists. These GC peepz are either really unexposed lot of people that should not be placed near any tourists at all! Sadly, they would make alot of asians not wanting to go back there again.
My apologies for telling the story backwards. We flew business class and naturally our luggage would come out first. We walked through the customs and were asked to open our bags. We don't have any problems with that because being frequent travelers, we are used to security checks. It is the manner which our stuffs have been scrutinised that disgust us. They took out everything from our bags, literally removed everything and used their tiny scanners to scan everything! Even the sole of my jimmy choo shoes! Who on earth would smuggle anything in jimmy choo shoes. Do they even know how much they cost? If they have asked to tear open the sole, I would SUE their asses off! There weren't many asians on our flight (now I know why) and I noticed every asian travelers were asked to open their bags!
Gold Coast is definitely not safe for tourists. Don't ever go there.
I think these places just don't want to end up like Sydney, (Here it is literally spot the white person in most places) but it is inevitable and they are (understandably, if not fairly) reserved and upset around Asian people
If you want to experience racism, learn chinese and live in China. I lived for over 4 years in Hong Kong and beforehand learnt Cantonese, enough to pass for a Chinese person on the telephone when applying for work - only to turn up to interviews and be told the job has to go to an "Asian person". White people are told to teach English, the resident Indian population in HK (Cantonese speaking) are restricted to being security guards. White people are "foreign devils" (not referred to by their names), black ghosts (for black people) and so on.This is a world class city with living standards high enough to rival any country
Kind of puts your Gold Coast storm in a teacup in prospective, doesn't it?
Tropical87, you are not comparing apple to apple. Getting a job in HK is taking away money from them. Besides, as employers, they have whole set of different considerations. Why would they hire a white guy who can only make small talk in cantonese but would not be able to review a chinese contract?
As tourists, we are bringing revenue and business to these people - to put it crudely - we bring in the money. If they don't welcome our money, we can, should and most definitely will bring it elsewhere...
The irony of the whole thing is (and probably these people don't read the finance pages) China now owns most of the big mining companies in australia and before long, they will have chinese as their bosses. Hope it will be easier for them to treat their asian bosses with respect than the asian tourists.
Malaysia I am SO SORRY you had to deal with this absolute stupidity. It's not very comforting considering that my trip to the gold coast is in less than two weeks. I had to share with you a story about Melbourne that reminded me of yours and its a little off topic but oh well..I visited Melbourne with my friend Kietzke and we tried to get into a bar. She's filipino and I am persian. The bouncer looked at us with disgust and without giving us a second thought basically told us to **** off because there was no more room in the bar. I was about to leave when I saw him immediately let in 6 scraggly white people right after denying me access. I asked him about them and he said they were "friends" but when I asked him to give me one name from the crew he could not answer my question. I asked the other bouncer if I could talk to the manager and he was just rude to me as well. I definitely caused a scene over this because of my outrage..I walked to another bar and gave them the rundown of the treatment I had just received and a very pretty spanish girl standing next to me talking to the bouncer said "forget them, they're racist jerks. I never bother going to that bar"
So yes. I'm sure this isn't representative of the whole population but it causes one to wonder. At home in Orange County I work in one of the most upscale uppity restaurants catering to rich white WASPS and I have NEVER had to deal with racism...not until I visited Melbourne. Don't get me wrong though I am still head over heels in love with that city and plan to maybe get my masters there but it still sucked and was a very sobering experience /:
o ps..funny story? the guys who refused to let me in weren't even white...
Tropical87, you are not comparing apple to apple. Getting a job in HK is taking away money from them. Besides, as employers, they have whole set of different considerations. Why would they hire a white guy who can only make small talk in cantonese but would not be able to review a chinese contract?
As tourists, we are bringing revenue and business to these people - to put it crudely - we bring in the money. If they don't welcome our money, we can, should and most definitely will bring it elsewhere...
The irony of the whole thing is (and probably these people don't read the finance pages) China now owns most of the big mining companies in australia and before long, they will have chinese as their bosses. Hope it will be easier for them to treat their asian bosses with respect than the asian tourists.
Your post is an example of racismand stereotypes. Firstly I have an honors degree in Chinese, and have spoke it since i was 14, so I do more than just make small talk. And the HK employment market is so large with minimal unemployment that you arent taking money away from anyone.
As for your treatment in the GC, as unpleasant as it was for you at least you know what it is like being a white person in Japan, Korea or China, Malaysia ect
Jamie, sad to hear you had such a rough time, i really had not idea it would be that bad on the GC.
Austrlralian customs officials are shocking i know that from my own experience. I am a frequent international flyer and i hate comming through australian customs. The situation you described in customs has happend to me many times in Australia. Most interestingly I have never had my bags checked in any other country on earth other than Australia. ( I have never being to the USA however, where i am led to beleive its qutie common).
I am a frequent visitor to China, Japan and Korea, (I speak passable Korean) and yes i often find I am treated with poor service in thoes countries. I just put it down to a language barrier, people just assume you cant speak the local language and often speak little or no english, their hesitant in serving you,
Last edited by danielsa1775; 09-15-2009 at 06:08 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
From what I've read about Sydney/Oz and racial tensions, there seems to be more than around here.
)
