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Old 10-21-2020, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Upstate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
And that is going to make for a good young foursome for Hendrck for years to come. Larson is going to be a great addition to the Hendrick stable.
It does look like HMS stock is on the rise. JGR and Penske will start feeling the pain with their aging superstars, just like HMS did the past few years, until they can refresh their stables. Not saying that their current drivers are done, but eventually age will creep up on these great drivers. HMS last championship was 2016, which in the current era is similar to Kyle Busch not having a win this season.

Stewart Hass has made the move to bring in Brisco to eventually replace age defying Harvick. We'll see how that goes.
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Old 10-21-2020, 08:58 AM
 
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Sorry to hijack thread - I’m a casual NASCAR fan and hit the Daytona 500 every year or so with family. It’s mostly for the fun and shenanigans but overall it’s an awesome event. Any hints on what will happen with it in 2021? Feb is just around the corner.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04 View Post
It does look like HMS stock is on the rise. JGR and Penske will start feeling the pain with their aging superstars, just like HMS did the past few years, until they can refresh their stables. Not saying that their current drivers are done, but eventually age will creep up on these great drivers. HMS last championship was 2016, which in the current era is similar to Kyle Busch not having a win this season.

The only thing I'll caution on is that comparing 'this year' to ANYTHING else is a bad idea. Kyle not having a win.. Lots of people are pointing to the lack of practice and qualifying. And, he's still been competitive.

Hamlin isn't 40 yet, neither is Busch. Truex JUST turned 40. And Bell is 25. So.. JGR, at least.. Has a couple of years left before being concerned.


Penske.. Logano is 30, Blaney is 26.. Keselowski.. The first thing to note, I heard he signed a ONE year contract extension. so, I suspect he might be on the move next year and we'll be going through the same crap we did this year.. But he's only 36.



The thing Penske and Gibbs have immediate issues with so far as age is their own, not the drivers. Both are, I believe closing in on 80. No, they're not.. Joe will be 80 next month and Roger is 83.


We've had this discussion around here before. The only team with a succession plan that is well known is Gibbs. JD was going to take over.. Now, it'll go to Coy and the grandkids.


Penske.. Seems to me there's been plans made there as well.. That have been discussed, just.. Not loudly. But I think Roger has a continuity plan.


Hendrick.. What happens there? I mean, he's only got the one grandchild, I think.. And I believe there's some friction there. Plus, the kid is only about 10 years old. Gordon owns a piece of that.. Junior as well I would suspect via JR Motorsports. But.. Rick is 71.


Roush.. Well, with the 'merger' with Fenway.. This probably just gets absorbed.. But Jack's 78. And the way he flies a plane, sooner or later he and Harrison Ford are going to meet up in the afterlife. Hate to say it, but I'd also say this team is rather irrelevant now.



Petty.. He is probably the most likely to go the soonest. Now, let's be honest. RPM is Petty in name only. But Petty is 83, and all them Goody's powders have eaten away his stomach. Lynda has been gone 6 years.. All I can say here is enjoy every minute we have left with the King. He's not going to be around forever.

Hopefully, the Hamlin/Jordan team takes off. In 10 years.. We're going to be talking a whole different landscape in NASCAR so far as teams.



Quote:
Originally Posted by peta2013 View Post
Sorry to hijack thread - I’m a casual NASCAR fan and hit the Daytona 500 every year or so with family. It’s mostly for the fun and shenanigans but overall it’s an awesome event. Any hints on what will happen with it in 2021? Feb is just around the corner.

There's just no telling right now. If it were happening tomorrow.. I suspect they'd have fans in the stands, but only about 1/3rd capacity.

By February.. We could be looking at anything from empty seats or a full house to postponement. I'd lean more towards the odds being more with empty seats than a full house. Reality likely lies somewhere in the middle.
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Old 10-21-2020, 03:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
The only thing I'll caution on is that comparing 'this year' to ANYTHING else is a bad idea. Kyle not having a win.. Lots of people are pointing to the lack of practice and qualifying. And, he's still been competitive.

Hamlin isn't 40 yet, neither is Busch. Truex JUST turned 40. And Bell is 25. So.. JGR, at least.. Has a couple of years left before being concerned.


Penske.. Logano is 30, Blaney is 26.. Keselowski.. The first thing to note, I heard he signed a ONE year contract extension. so, I suspect he might be on the move next year and we'll be going through the same crap we did this year.. But he's only 36.



The thing Penske and Gibbs have immediate issues with so far as age is their own, not the drivers. Both are, I believe closing in on 80. No, they're not.. Joe will be 80 next month and Roger is 83.



Roush.. Well, with the 'merger' with Fenway.. This probably just gets absorbed.. But Jack's 78. And the way he flies a plane, sooner or later he and Harrison Ford are going to meet up in the afterlife. Hate to say it, but I'd also say this team is rather irrelevant now.



Petty.. He is probably the most likely to go the soonest. Now, let's be honest. RPM is Petty in name only. But Petty is 83, and all them Goody's powders have eaten away his stomach. Lynda has been gone 6 years.. All I can say here is enjoy every minute we have left with the King. He's not going to be around forever.

Hopefully, the Hamlin/Jordan team takes off. In 10 years.. We're going to be talking a whole different landscape in NASCAR so far as teams.


There's just no telling right now. If it were happening tomorrow.. I suspect they'd have fans in the stands, but only about 1/3rd capacity.

By February.. We could be looking at anything from empty seats or a full house to postponement. I'd lean more towards the odds being more with empty seats than a full house. Reality likely lies somewhere in the middle.
I think you said it well Labonte18.
Full disclosure. I am one that has actually turned off nascar for multiple reasons I wont bore anyone with other than to say they have gone too far to the pc side just like all the other sports. I havent watched a full race for 2 years. This forum is pretty much my fix. I for one am not a Hamlin fan nor a Bubba Wallace fan so I wont be rooting for their success. It will be interesting to see how team ownership effects Hamlins personal performance. Harvick didnt win a championship until he sold off his team and eliminated the distraction. Kyle Bush , up until this year didnt seem to have a problem with it (not saying that is KB's problem now).
It is fascinating to me how far Roush has fallen since the days they were a 4 and 5 car team. 1 of the 3 top teams in NASCAR. I suspect it has much to do with Jack himself and his failure to keep up with the changing times.
As has been mentioned much on here , NASCAR is now driven by the manufactures and sponsers it has become a totally different animal than what it was 20 years ago ... in some ways it has become a victim of its own success. Its crazy to think that we are talking about the retirement of the young kid that took over for Dale senior when he was killed . ( Even though Harvick does seem to be defying the odds). I remember Jimmy Johnson and Ryan Newman battling for rookie of the year. Remember who won?
Newman , Kurt Busch and Harvick will be the last of that Generation of Drivers that came in when NASCAR's popularity was growing like crazy.
I personally dont see these young drivers having that long of a career, manufactures are stacking up development drivers to replace the latest, greatest at the first sign they have an off year. Just as we are seeing today there is no room at the top.
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Old 10-21-2020, 04:12 PM
 
11,843 posts, read 9,234,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
I think you said it well Labonte18.
Full disclosure. I am one that has actually turned off nascar for multiple reasons I wont bore anyone with other than to say they have gone too far to the pc side just like all the other sports. I havent watched a full race for 2 years. This forum is pretty much my fix. I for one am not a Hamlin fan nor a Bubba Wallace fan so I wont be rooting for their success. It will be interesting to see how team ownership effects Hamlins personal performance. Harvick didnt win a championship until he sold off his team and eliminated the distraction. Kyle Bush , up until this year didnt seem to have a problem with it (not saying that is KB's problem now).
It is fascinating to me how far Roush has fallen since the days they were a 4 and 5 car team. 1 of the 3 top teams in NASCAR. I suspect it has much to do with Jack himself and his failure to keep up with the changing times.
As has been mentioned much on here , NASCAR is now driven by the manufactures and sponsers it has become a totally different animal than what it was 20 years ago ... in some ways it has become a victim of its own success. Its crazy to think that we are talking about the retirement of the young kid that took over for Dale senior when he was killed . ( Even though Harvick does seem to be defying the odds). I remember Jimmy Johnson and Ryan Newman battling for rookie of the year. Remember who won?
Newman , Kurt Busch and Harvick will be the last of that Generation of Drivers that came in when NASCAR's popularity was growing like crazy.
I personally dont see these young drivers having that long of a career, manufactures are stacking up development drivers to replace the latest, greatest at the first sign they have an off year. Just as we are seeing today there is no room at the top.

True.. I rarely watch a full race anymore. Some exceptions. I still like the plate tracks (Even though there's no plate anymore) and road courses are enjoyable.

Bristol, which used to be never miss.. While I enjoy the racing more there now.. Meh.

The people stuck on "If Dale were still alive".. Several things.. First off, he'd be LONG retired by now. If he had still been driving in 2005, i'd be surprised. Second.. We're NOW at the point that "If Dale hadn't died" doesn't mean he'd still be alive. Remember that his paternal line isn't all that long lived. His mother is still alive, if I am not mistaken, but his father and grandfather I believe died in their 50's from heart issues.. And.. as we know from "The aliens abducting him" at Darlington.. He likely had some heart issues himself. *** How many people remember this?

Newman/Johnson and Earnhardt Jr/Kenseth were great rookie battles. I always thought Kenseth was the better driver than Earnhardt and said that when they both came up. Johnson surprised the crap out of me. Who could have predicted he'd be a 7 time champion? And, honestly, without the chase, he wouldn't have been. So, there's a bit of an asterix there, but you have to remember, they don't change the points system in the middle of the year.

The career length won't shorten a whole lot I don't think. Simply because many drivers will either step back to a part time schedule or move down to lower series. Remember that's really what Mark Martin wanted to do and wound up driving another 6 or 7 years in Cup. The Cup grind is a young man's game. Hell, Bill Elliott could still get a ride if he wanted and he's 65.

I think, sooner or later, you're going to have another manufacturer come in and.. The days of the small team may be gone at that point. You'll have a big Ford team, a big Chevy team a big Toyota team and a big Honda/Dodge/someone team and that'll about be it.

remember we used to have 43 car fields and people going home. Not that long ago. It was huge news when there were only 42 cars at New Hampshire in 2001 when they ran the delayed race because Eel River Racing closed up shop.

Back in the 90's, it was common to have 60 cars attempt Daytona, same with the Brickyard.

There were only 43 cars that attempted Daytona this past year.Only 40 showed up to the Brickyard.

Things are changing, and that always happens. Racing in the mid to late 90's, which really was the heyday IMO was far, far different than racing in the 70's or 80's with those flying bricks. Not fair there, because I think the Plymouths and Dodges were really aero at that time, but, it's fun to say.

Not EVERY change is bad. However.. The worst change we've had was the Brian France era. Thankfully that is over.

I mean, remember in the 90's, there were really less than 10 cars per race that legitimately had a shot at winning. Let's look at a non-plate track.. Just.. Random, we'll say the Coke 600 from '95


https://www.racing-reference.info/ra...oca-Cola_600/W


I like that one, it was Bobby's first win. But, let's look through the cars that legitimately COULD win.


Bobby in Joe Gibbs 18 was good for a win or two a year.
Terry in Hendrick's #5 was always a threat to win
Sterling Marlin in the MMM #4.. Eh. yes, I put him here, though he was really a threat at plate tracks only
Ricky Rudd in the #10.. Good for a win or two a year
Dale Earnhardt in the 3.. Of course
Bobby Hamilton in the 43.. Unlikely, but i'll include him
Mark Martin in the 6 without question
Kyle Petty.. MAYBE.
Dale Jarrett was in the 28 this year, you have to count him
Jeff Gordon
Rusty Wallace


That's about it. 11 drivers.


That.. Kinda sucked.
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Old 10-21-2020, 05:35 PM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
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I have no issue with your selection, but a year earlier you would have to include Ernie Irvan and Geoff Bodine. Mid 90s they showed pretty well.
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Old 10-22-2020, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
I have no issue with your selection, but a year earlier you would have to include Ernie Irvan and Geoff Bodine. Mid 90s they showed pretty well.

True.. And I tend to forget that Geoff Bodine WAS a pretty good driver. Seeing him driving his own stuff.. Yeah, he won a race in it, but.. He never did very well in the 7 car.


But.. I will point out that there's really not that big a difference. Ok, so, maybe we put the 7 car up there. but, Irvan, all we did was move Jarrett from the 18 to the 28.. So, the names changed, the cars stayed the same.


Bobby became a threat to win and a winner.. but the 18 car was considered a threat to win prior to him coming there. Jarrett was a threat to win prior to moving to the 28. Rudd was a threat to win before moving to the 10 back in 94. I mean, I suppose TECHNICALLY we could include Bill Elliott.. Because he hadn't had the wheels fall off his own team by this point. He won in 94, I believe.


Ward won this year. I can't remember if it was before or after this race.. Must have been after, because he won in the 22 and he drove the 31 in the 600. But, I certainly wouldn't have considered him a threat to win. Jeff Burton, the next year, would become a threat.. With the new 99. Just as another Yates car, the 88, would become a threat.

The only team that you could argue 'grew' to be a threat would be the Wood Brothers. And.. That didn't happen until here a few years ago, really. They won with Sadler in '01, I believe it was and then '11 with Bayne. But it's only been the last few years that they've been any kind of threat.


But, even adding those in.. You've only got 15 cars that could be considered to have a shot.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:05 PM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
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Agreed. I'd include Elliott just becauuse he did run competitively.


But even now, there are only a few with more than one win. Hamlin, Harvick, Logano, Kes, and Elliott.
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Old 10-22-2020, 06:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
Agreed. I'd include Elliott just becauuse he did run competitively.


But even now, there are only a few with more than one win. Hamlin, Harvick, Logano, Kes, and Elliott.

Right, but we're not talking multiples.. Just cars that you look at and say "Yeah, i'm not going to be surprised if he wins"


So, you have to include every Gibbs car, every Penske car, every Hendrick car, every SHR car.. There's.. 25+ cars week-in-week out that legit have a shot to win. Some maybe more surprising than others if they do win.

But.. Come on. Was Junie Donlavy a threat to win back in 95? Stavola Brothers? Bud Moore? Dave Marcis?

I mean, even old Larry Hedrick, who I believe recently passed away.. While that team with Craven looked to MAYBE be turning a corner to become a threat.. They never did. Kenny Wallace and FilMar, another one that had a shot to climb the ladder.. Never happened.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:55 PM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
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A lot of those guys back then had a chance, it just didn't happen. Same happens now. Guys like Boyer have great equipment, but can't bring it home.
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