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The MPG is up to the driver. With the manual there is so much more control over the gears and the driver can keep the car in " extended range cruise" by using a combination of downshifting, up-shifting and neutral.
Because of the control issues with automatics the manual is safer. Think about a panic braking situation, in a manual the driver quickly and instinctively access 2nd gear and use that in conjunction with the brake to slow down the car. In turns down shifting increases traction. Most automatics are not going to downshift as smartly and as promptly as a human controlling the manual.
Not only are automatic drivers not getting maximum MPG they are also squandering safety. If dangerous and inefficient is not foolish I don't know what is.
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Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere
Modern automatics get better gas mileage than manuals now.
Yes, theoretically it's simpler to maintain, but if you buy a decent car, an automatic will last just as long.
See above.
"Fun to drive" is subjective. I guarantee there are cars that are more fun as an automatic than as a manual.
Safer? LOL. Not at all. In fact, due to advancements in traction and stability control, you're safer in an automatic.
In short, you don't know what you're talking about. If you prefer a manual, that's fine. But that's as far as it goes. To say that people who don't drive a manual are stupid is, well, stupid.
Because of the control issues with automatics the manual is safer. Think about a panic braking situation, in a manual the driver quickly and instinctively access 2nd gear and use that in conjunction with the brake to slow down the car. In turns down shifting increases traction. Most automatics are not going to downshift as smartly and as promptly as a human controlling the manual.
Pretty much irrelevant when taking ABS into account on current vehicles.
Pretty much irrelevant when taking ABS into account on current vehicles.
I agree that the poster doesn't seem to entirely follow with the times.
I will say however that there are situations (primarily on snow) where neither traction control, ABS or Stability control can help you out, and in those cases it's nice to have a clutch, so that you can (often not always), glide pass what would've been a sure crash without it.
It's certainly saved my butt more than once... which probably means I should drive slower on snow, hehe. But yeah, if you live in snow country (like I do), that feature is nice to have.
I still find that automatics seriously stunt performance, especially in small econo-boxes. I drove the latest Honda Fit which doesn't have much power to begin with but in stick-shift form, you can actually spin the tires off the line. I actually wouldn't mind having a Fit Sport with Navigation but they only offer it in with an automatic.
This is quite true. It's why I prefer manuals in small engine cars, and why I didn't buy the automatic PT Cruiser. 0-60 in 11 seconds for the auto vs 0-60 in about 8 seconds for the manual. Noticeable difference when driving it.
But get a bigger, torquier engine that doesn't need to rev, and you lose a lot of what makes a manual better and can start going the other way. At that point, I only prefer manuals if there is a uniqueness factor (which is why I'm puting a 5 speed manual behind the Lexus 4 liter DOHC V8 in my '63 Mercury Comet convertible. That engine was never avaialble with a manual, and the Comet never had a 5 speed, so it's cool and unique.) My 740iL is perfectly fine with the automatic, and more than sporty enough in Sport mode. Yeah, some people have done a manual conversion on them, but they do it for the uniqueness factor. Well, except my buddy Simeon who did it because he needed to handle the power output of his highly modded, supercharged engine in his 740iL... the 6 speed M5 trans went nicely with the 600 hp supercharged engine.
The MPG is up to the driver. With the manual there is so much more control over the gears and the driver can keep the car in " extended range cruise" by using a combination of downshifting, up-shifting and neutral.
Hate to break it to you, but you can do that with a good auto, too.
Quote:
Because of the control issues with automatics the manual is safer. Think about a panic braking situation, in a manual the driver quickly and instinctively access 2nd gear and use that in conjunction with the brake to slow down the car. In turns down shifting increases traction. Most automatics are not going to downshift as smartly and as promptly as a human controlling the manual.
Hate to break it to you again, but you can only slow down as fast as your tires will let you. If you are invoking ABS, you're slowing as fast as you can, and shifting down will not slow you any faster. Your brakes WILL slow you in a panic stop as fast as it is possible to stop the car. And if you simply slam on the brakes, your reaction time WILL be faster than if you ALSO have to try to think about moving the clutch and moving the shifter.
Simply put, you're completely wrong about this as well.
Now, if you are slowing repeatedly on a hill or something and overheating thebrakes, then yes, youcan shift to a lower gear to help slow the car wihtout using the brakes as much. BUT... you can do the same with an automatic. that's why there are more positions than "D" on the shifter.
Quote:
Not only are automatic drivers not getting maximum MPG they are also squandering safety. If dangerous and inefficient is not foolish I don't know what is.
You're completely wrong, so your last statement is foolish.
I agree that the poster doesn't seem to entirely follow with the times.
I will say however that there are situations (primarily on snow) where neither traction control, ABS or Stability control can help you out, and in those cases it's nice to have a clutch, so that you can (often not always), glide pass what would've been a sure crash without it.
It's certainly saved my butt more than once... which probably means I should drive slower on snow, hehe. But yeah, if you live in snow country (like I do), that feature is nice to have.
Never had that problem in snow with any of my automatic equipped cars. The Range Rover with it's automatic is absolutely stellar in the snow. The BMW, however, is hampered by the 19" summer perfopramcne tires and the type of transmission is irrelevant. So it doesn't go out in snow at all.
And again, the tires traction is the limiting factor. If the engine braking of a clutch can slow your tires, so can regular braking. ABS and threshold braking utilizes the limits of your tires' traction. Engine braking cannot exceed that, so your maximum rate of deceleration is identical. If you would "glide past" a sure crash with one, you'd do so with the other.
To sum up, there is no snow situation where engine braking with the clutch gives you any more traction than braking with the brake system. Your tires are the limiting factor. (this, BTW, is also true with big brake kits for cars. Unless you're expereincing massive brake fade and can't lock up the tires, or invoke ABS, no amount of bigger brakes will stop the car even one inch shorter...)
suffice it to say i have a large amount of driving experience, and i can tell you that i dont want a manual transmission in my 77 olds delta 88 royal. however my 66 mustang and my 64 falcon will both likely have manual transmissions.
Exactly, I have driven manual shifts exclusively (the only thing available until recently over here) on all my cars over the years.
Driving stop light to stop light, your hand on the stick, 0-30mph, or bumper to bumper commuting, adds nothing to the drive, well it's add to your bother I guess.
Now roaring onto the freeway, going 0-65mph in 8 seconds, shifting at 6000 revs, in an Alfa GT....that's does add something!
Not the same car though.
As for Americans not knowing how to drive... travel overseas and drive around for a few minutes, You ain't seen nuttin yet. LOL
The only excuse for driving the auto is you are too stupid to drive the manual. Only in america are people so stupid that they have to drive the automatic.
I learned to drive in a manual shift datsun pickup, and my first car was a manual 4 cylinder Mustang. I have owned several manuals and drive one right now, but as I get older and more settled I find that I am getting tired of shifting gears and prefer less hassle. My next car will be an auto.
The MPG is up to the driver. With the manual there is so much more control over the gears and the driver can keep the car in " extended range cruise" by using a combination of downshifting, up-shifting and neutral.
By all objective measures, modern automatics get equal or better mileage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samyn on the green
Because of the control issues with automatics the manual is safer. Think about a panic braking situation, in a manual the driver quickly and instinctively access 2nd gear and use that in conjunction with the brake to slow down the car. In turns down shifting increases traction. Most automatics are not going to downshift as smartly and as promptly as a human controlling the manual.
Not only are automatic drivers not getting maximum MPG they are also squandering safety. If dangerous and inefficient is not foolish I don't know what is.
There is no "control issue" with automatics. It's something that manual snobs like to point to, but there isn't really any basis for it on modern cars.
Automatics will downshift faster than humans can think about it. Part of modern safety equipment is using the automatic transmission in case of a panic stop. No human can do it as quickly or effectively. Not to mention that downshifting in the case of a full-on panic stop has minimal effect.
Also, you're presuming that in an emergency situation, someone will have the presence of mind or the time to do everything exactly correct. An iffy presumption at best.
Driving a manual is a personal preference, but the day has long passed when it's objectively better than an automatic.
The MPG is up to the driver. With the manual there is so much more control over the gears and the driver can keep the car in " extended range cruise" by using a combination of downshifting, up-shifting and neutral.
Because of the control issues with automatics the manual is safer. Think about a panic braking situation, in a manual the driver quickly and instinctively access 2nd gear and use that in conjunction with the brake to slow down the car. In turns down shifting increases traction. Most automatics are not going to downshift as smartly and as promptly as a human controlling the manual.
Not only are automatic drivers not getting maximum MPG they are also squandering safety. If dangerous and inefficient is not foolish I don't know what is.
while there was a time when automatics were less than good, that time has long past. one we dropped automatics like the two speed ford o matic, the dynaflow, the old hydromatic, and got into transmissions like the C4, C6, turbo 350 and 400, the torqueflight 727, and also the newer over drive transmissions, and with companies like california performance, performance automatic, art carr, and lentech all working improve the various modern automatics, and with the factories incorporating these improvements in new cars, you are way off base. lets take the mazda 6 for instance. there are two transmissions available for it, a nice 6 speed manual trans, and a sweet 6 speed automatic, that includes provision for manual shifting the automatic. i can tell you from experience that in manual mode, the mazda automatic is superior to the manual trans, and you NEVER have to worry about missing a gear.
with earlier automatics, just adding a shift kit and a ratchet shifter, and the older three sped automatics do quite well think you.
if you want to drive manual transmission cars exclusively, be my guest. me i want cars that makes sense, and a manual transmission in a full size sedan, like my oldsmobile, doesnt make sense.
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