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I wonder why they don't make a fwd pick-up?
ps the race car analogy is a hoot. I wonder why nascar or indy cars haven't gone to fwd. Now lets get off of the track and back to real world driving conditions.
I had several VW Rabbit Diesel Pick-Up trucks in service for my auto repair shop as parts runners/loaner vehicles. They performed yeoman service at very low cost per mile with mid 40's mpg ... and were very reliable for us.
Typically bought for low cost due to our cold weather climate at high altitude which made them a hard vehicle to rely upon when parked outside for a day. Most folk didn't want to have to deal with ethering them to start when they were cold soaked and cranking over very slowy when the motors had a bit of wear on them. A valve job and setting the injection timing and valve clearances to favor cold weather starting with light weight multi-vis Rotella T oil made all the difference for us ... and I could put a car on a block heater for an hour or so if I knew I was going to be needing it, which made cold weather starting easy.
What made these little trucks especially nice as nasty weather service vehicles is that they could haul tools/batteries and service equipment for road calls ... and were very easy to drive, even when used for loaner cars to folk who didn't drive FWD cars as their normal daily driver.
I wound up selling all of them in due course to my MB (RWD car) customers who had a chance to drive one (as a shop loaner) on a snowy/icy day and loved the way they handled in those conditions. With a winter t-stat to bring the engine temp up a bit for the heater, they had powerful heaters/defrosters and were pretty good driving winter "beaters".
As I was driving BMW 2002's and MB 220D's as my winter vehicles, I can well relate to their good driving characteristics on snowy/icy days ... but once I got in to Audi AWD, then Subie AWD cars, the RWD cars weren't my choice anymore (after several hundred thousand miles of RWD winter driving without any accidents).
I'd also driven a number of Subie Brat's years ago with the selectable FWD/AWD option ... in bad weather, I never used the AWD. Never needed it. The owners told me that the only time they used the AWD feature was when they were off-roading, mostly in the sand dunes and needed the low gear range.
In my experience, on real world icy/snowy streets and highways ... FWD vehicles deliver much better control in the hands of an average driver on the street. I've seen way more RWD cars in accidents, or having difficulty with traction on the mountain roads around here than FWD cars. The first time I drove a Saab FWD in icy conditions in the Colorado mountains (when FWD was a rarity), it was easy to see the appeal of this configuration, although the overall car wasn't what I wanted in a driver ....
You can patch job anything to make it work, but rwd is inherently better than fwd for driving. FWD is popular because its cheap to produce a fwd car. It was popularized back in the day as better in poor weather because the weight load on the drive wheels is greater, and a fwd will plow rather than spin out.
When you get into performance driving and maximizing the vehicle, the best set up between weight power delivery and balance includes a rwd or awd car.
And vehicles that tow things (like pickups) are generally rwd because fwd loses too much traction when towing.
Typically bought for low cost due to our cold weather climate at high altitude which made them a hard vehicle to rely upon when parked outside for a day. Most folk didn't want to have to deal with ethering them to start when they were cold soaked and cranking over very slowy when the motors had a bit of wear on them.. and I could put a car on a block heater for an hour or so if I knew I was going to be needing it, which made cold weather starting easy.
....
I have started many different diesels (cat, Detroit, cummins, AC, bens, snaida, in the frigged winters in MN and Co, it is a rare occasion that we ever had to resort to "ethering them" even when not plugged in. Good batteries are the key and using the right oil.
But what does that have to do with fwd VS rwd?
I'm still waiting for it to get to -20 because I was told by someone on here that the block heater will be useless at those temps. gasser or diesel
And it was NOT because it was FWD. You apparently aren't reading well, yourself. As I posted, the Distributors in the cars *I* posted are easily accessible.
So your posted logic is you stay away from ALL FWD cars because ONE GM FWD car was hard to reach the distributor on (even though others are proven not to be difficult to work on), but because the distributor/back cyls are difficult to get to on an F body, you will stay away from F bodys, but not all RWD cars, as you know other RWD cars aren't as difficult to work on.
Hypocritical, closed minded BS, and I'm calling you on that double standard.
Merc, I wished I still had this Cavalier I'd invite you over to see for yourself. Then maybe you'd believe me. Ok since you can't figure this one out, let me re-phrase myself...it was a pita because it was a transversely mounted engine. There you go. I read just fine thank you.
No I didn't say I stayed away from all FWD's cuz 1 was a pita to work on. Again re-read what I posted. I've been around SEVERAL FWD's and ALL of them were not as easy to work on. To change the alternator on our CRV I have to dismantle half the engine compartment. My neighbor's Corolla was really interesting changing power steering pumps and alternators. I've yet to see a FWD that's cinch to work on.
Even then so why would I want another FWD? My thing is high performance muscle cars and 4X4 trucks. Both of which i personally think are easier to work on than a FWD car. No wait my bad a transversely mounted engine car.
You call yourself a car guy I thought you would have understood where I was coming from.
As for the F body comment, before you post again, try reading what I typed. I didn't say I stayed away from F bodies....I said one of the reasons why I don't own a 4th gen F body. Not all F bodies were like the 4th gen. my dad has a 1st gen it's easy as pie to work on. And better looking too.
So what? Does it make you that mad because I chose not to own something because of how tedious the repairs might be? Grow some thicker skin. Or better yet learn to read and comprehend as opposed to just making **** up. You haven't called me out on anything son.
Actually the old VW cars of the 80s are as I posted earlier mostly easy to work on. Spark plugs are on the front side of the head, the head not being cross-flow there is essentially nothing in the way. Alternator, PS if you have it, also no big deal. Timing belt and water pump are separate, the water pump is a bit of a PITA if the car has A/C, you have to take the A/C compressor loose unless you put some Allen bolts in where the mechanical part of the water pump joins the volute. I did that last time I had it apart. O2 sensor if present is possible to change with just an open end wrench provided it's not stuck.
About the only tasks that have you pulling the engine and/or transmission are a clutch (not the throwout bearing, it's outboard) or outright overhaul of engine or trans.
If you are careful with the clutch, it will last about long enough that you will want to do some engine work anyway at that point. I have about 150K on my clutch and the angle of the throwout arm tells me it's still about 90% or better.
Actually the old VW cars of the 80s are as I posted earlier mostly easy to work on. Spark plugs are on the front side of the head, the head not being cross-flow there is essentially nothing in the way. Alternator, PS if you have it, also no big deal. Timing belt and water pump are separate, the water pump is a bit of a PITA if the car has A/C, you have to take the A/C compressor loose unless you put some Allen bolts in where the mechanical part of the water pump joins the volute. I did that last time I had it apart. O2 sensor if present is possible to change with just an open end wrench provided it's not stuck.
About the only tasks that have you pulling the engine and/or transmission are a clutch (not the throwout bearing, it's outboard) or outright overhaul of engine or trans.
If you are careful with the clutch, it will last about long enough that you will want to do some engine work anyway at that point. I have about 150K on my clutch and the angle of the throwout arm tells me it's still about 90% or better.
I'll 2nd this ... those VW's were a piece of cake to work on, especially the diesels with the injection pump so accessible and easy to time with the dial indicator. The diesel Audi's, too .... I didn't work on the gasser versions of these cars, but they should have been similar for access.
As far as a very easy to work on FWD/AWD vehicle, Subaru gets my vote. Alt, starter, P/S pump, A/C compressor ... all very accessible. The late models have greater clearance between the (easy to R&R) radiator/fans, and I can install a new timing belt in one of these without having to remove the radiator like the older 2.5's.
Sorry, but FWD IS better in the snow than RWD with similar tires. AWD is better yet. For the same reason that pulling a rope is better than pushing it. Inclement weather changes a lot of the dynamics.
I have always laughed when in a fwd/rwd argument horses and ropes are the fundamental fall back point of the fwd fan. Ironically by people who have never drove a horse drawn wagon. To rebut the argument. It is not the wagons placement before or after the horse. In this case the horse is a 4x4 wheel drive tractor and the wagon is a trailer.
The biggest reason for fwd is price. It is cheaper to produce and install the motor/transmission/pumpkin package in whole on the assembly line.
Volvo was referred to. They were made rwd for nearly 100 years before they switched to fwd, during the Ford ownership. Front wheel drive has gotten reliable in the last few decades. I had a Audi in 1974, it was front wheel drive with a inline 4cyl, easy enough to work on. My wife has a fwd Escape, she was unaware they came in 4x4 or she would have got one.
My self. 4x4 truck V8. 2 sets of chains. All the rest are posers.
You can patch job anything to make it work, but rwd is inherently better than fwd for driving. FWD is popular because its cheap to produce a fwd car. It was popularized back in the day as better in poor weather because the weight load on the drive wheels is greater, and a fwd will plow rather than spin out.
When you get into performance driving and maximizing the vehicle, the best set up between weight power delivery and balance includes a rwd or awd car.
If RWD is automatically better, then why don't luxury '70s RWD domestic cars handle worth a crap in performance situations? How come musclecars got a reputation for being poor handling cars? You have to do a LOT of work to the suspensions of musclecars to get them to handle good at all. they CAN work good, but you have to do a lot of band-aiding to get them to work.
Coming from a road race and autocross background, I can tell you that the average RWD car is NOT suitable for that application withut mods EITHER.
yes, at the upper limits of performance, the fastest cars are RWD. But unless yorue running F1 times, it really doesn't matter as that article I posted pointed out.
The biggest reason for fwd is price. It is cheaper to produce and install the motor/transmission/pumpkin package in whole on the assembly line.
And again, this is a fallacy, as FWD economy cars cost more to produce than the RWD economy cars they replaced. Did you not think that RWD cars have the engine and trans installed as a unit? And a rear suspension is installed as a unit whther it has a pumpkin in it or not.
When cars were being downsized in the '70s, FWD, as had been learned with the Austin Mini, Citroen Traction Avant, Cord L29 and 810, and Olds Toronado, gave more floorspace in a smaller package.
And it's all pointless now for that reason as they've gone and taken up that floorspace with unnecessary center console.
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