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Back to the first post, I think the comparison was American Muscle (past and present) vs the foreign exotics.
Between my brother and I, we have a collection of restored old school MoPar Muscle Cars (magazine published AND calendar published). Restoring, driving and racing Mopar Musclecars has been a lifelong passion for both of us. The '70 Duster 340 is a stroker, and crazy ffffast. The '70 Challenger R/T has a 550HP big block and is also a scary ride. We're both experienced racers, the cars are modified to handle MUCH better than they were equipped from the factory over 40 years ago. Can tell you first hand, the 60's era muscle does not handle for beans. Count out any and all 60's-'70's era American cars from the "handling" dept.
Strait line acceleration/performance is another story, however this brings up a few more items to be addressed. Comparing OLD muscle to NEW modern muscle (factory stock vs factory stock) the new American supercars win hands down. I'm talking cars like the Shelby GT-500 Mustangs and 'Vette Zo6, 6.2L Hemi Challengers and the highest HP Camaro's. In order to match performance 1/4 mi times, the older musclecars need a serious injection of hard ca$h. 3 speed autos and 4 spd manuals seriously hamper driveability when used with the appropraite gear ratios for hard acceleration. You can make OLD really fast, be prepered to dump 50-60K into an 11 sec ride that you can drive 40 miles to a cruise nite.
OK, now onto New American Muscle vs the Exotics. Also in our stable is a modified '08 Shelby GT-500 Mustang. the 5.4L is chassis dyno'd at just under 1,000 crank HP. Get this, STOCK camshaft and factory heads!!!! Car can do better than 19MPG highway to boot. Runs 9's on the 1/4mi dragstrip, and is not close to being the quickest Shelby GT-500 we've ever seen. There are guys running high 8's on street driven Shelbys out there.. Have we ever raced the exotics?? Funny you ask. Have yet to meet our match on the street except for 2 very fast new Corvettes..One was a modified Z06, the other the supercharged ZR1. To their credit, they kept up pretty damn good! Fender to fender. The Shelby has manhandled and embarrased some of the most expensive and fastest Exotic European cars made. The humiliation on the face of a dude who thinks he's all that and a 6-pack to watch a FORD haze the tires at 100+ mph and leave his $490,000 car looking for a hiding space is priceless. Certainly one of the pleasure in life. My vote for American Muscle vs. the Exotics... I'll take the new 'Vettes and what Carroll Shelby is doing with Ford anyday.
There's been generalizations to this day that American Muscle Cars cannot out handle Exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis even though AMCs are fast in a straight and so on so as in quality and other catagories.
Can anyone show me a video of a vintage Mustang with leaf springs and a live axle feeding a Ferrari or Lamborghini its ass on a track? I'd actually really like to see it; huge props to anyone who could make it happen.
Can anyone show me a video of a vintage Mustang with leaf springs and a live axle feeding a Ferrari or Lamborghini its ass on a track? I'd actually really like to see it; huge props to anyone who could make it happen.
You mean a Ferrari or Lamborghini of the same vintage?Perhaps comparing a 1969 Boss 302 with say a 1969 Ferrari Dino 246GT??
You mean a Ferrari or Lamborghini of the same vintage?Perhaps comparing a 1969 Boss 302 with say a 1969 Ferrari Dino 246GT??
I mean vintage muscle vs. contemporary sports. I've seen people on here say that a vintage muscle car can "easily" be made to outhandle a contemporary import/euro sports car and I want to see proof.
Well that doesn't seem fair....compare vintage muscle to vintage european sports cars and see how things stack up....
That's what I'm saying. But some of the musclecar fans here seem to think that with the right amount of elbow grease, a '72 Monte Carlo can run and hide from a Boxster on a track.
That's what I'm saying. But some of the musclecar fans here seem to think that with the right amount of elbow grease, a '72 Monte Carlo can run and hide from a Boxster on a track.
But what about a 1970 Porsche 911 and a 1970 Boss 302?
But what about a 1970 Porsche 911 and a 1970 Boss 302?
Power to weight ratio (approximate) for a 1970 Porsche is about 12.7, for a 1970 Boss it's (approximately) 11.4, so the Mustang wins there. But the Mustang also weighs about 1000lbs more than the Porsche; on handling, I'd put my money on the Porsche. So it depends: how much of a gap can the 'Stang put on the Porsche before it hits the turn?
This is worth posting again.. 1000 hp.. . The new Ford V8's are nothing short of amazing. And the 2013 GT500 is going to be over 600 hp from the factory. They just keep upping the hp..
How does the challenger RT hang with the GT500?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom62
OK, now onto New American Muscle vs the Exotics. Also in our stable is a modified '08 Shelby GT-500 Mustang. the 5.4L is chassis dyno'd at just under 1,000 crank HP. Get this, STOCK camshaft and factory heads!!!! Car can do better than 19MPG highway to boot. Runs 9's on the 1/4mi dragstrip, and is not close to being the quickest Shelby GT-500 we've ever seen. There are guys running high 8's on street driven Shelbys out there.. Have we ever raced the exotics?? Funny you ask. Have yet to meet our match on the street except for 2 very fast new Corvettes..One was a modified Z06, the other the supercharged ZR1. To their credit, they kept up pretty damn good! Fender to fender. The Shelby has manhandled and embarrased some of the most expensive and fastest Exotic European cars made. The humiliation on the face of a dude who thinks he's all that and a 6-pack to watch a FORD haze the tires at 100+ mph and leave his $490,000 car looking for a hiding space is priceless. Certainly one of the pleasure in life. My vote for American Muscle vs. the Exotics... I'll take the new 'Vettes and what Carroll Shelby is doing with Ford anyday.
That's what I'm saying. But some of the musclecar fans here seem to think that with the right amount of elbow grease, a '72 Monte Carlo can run and hide from a Boxster on a track.
You do realize that in racing, there are things called "classes" where similar types of cars run together, and dissimilar kinds of cars do not. So you'll never GET a video of a vintage musclecar running against a modern sports car, as they don't run in the same classes and rarely even are found in the same run groups on track days.
OTOH, we've SEEN them run better lap times on the track and autocross course.
But when talking about street cars, I've already discussed what's necessary to make them handle good. The issue is always one of weight. Your '72 Monte Carlo example is of the kind of post-muscle car era car we're NOT talking about. Heavy personal luxury car. But even then, there are bolt on parts for it to make it handle exceptionally (BTW, it doesn't use leaf springs even in stock form).
Let me ask you this, have you built an autocross car or track day car from a classic musclecar and driven it on the track? if not, just listen to the peoel with experience.
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Have yet to meet our match on the street except for 2 very fast new Corvettes..One was a modified Z06, the other the supercharged ZR1. To their credit, they kept up pretty damn good! Fender to fender. The Shelby has manhandled and embarrased some of the most expensive and fastest Exotic European cars made. The humiliation on the face of a dude who thinks he's all that and a 6-pack to watch a FORD haze the tires at 100+ mph and leave his $490,000 car looking for a hiding space is priceless. Certainly one of the pleasure in life. My vote for American Muscle vs. the Exotics... I'll take the new 'Vettes and what Carroll Shelby is doing with Ford anyday.
. The new Ford V8's are nothing short of amazing. And the 2013 GT500 is going to be over 600 hp from the factory. They just keep upping the hp.. 
