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No, Acura and Infiniti are definitely full luxury brands, they just put a lot more focus on sport. This is they way I see it:
Germany - Japan Comparison
Mercedes Benz = Lexus
BMW = Infiniti
Audi, sort of = Acura
I am not saying they are equal in quality, sales, popularity, etc, rather those are the main competition for each of those Japanese brands. Lexus targets MB, Infiniti targets BMW, and Acura, well I really don't know, but maybe Audi?
Sorry this is way off. Lexus has targeted them all from the CT to the LFA. AWD, hybrids, F program etc. Ininiti and Acura don't even offer full lineups and Acura doesn't offer really anything luxurious, no V-8s, RWD, real wood, technology etc. Inifniit offers a QX56, how the hell is that like BMW? They have nothing to compete with M and only make a manual in the G37. BMW offers manuals in most vehicles.
Sadly Lexus is the only Japanese brand that is a real luxury brand, the other two are confused also rans. Thus Germany>Japanese since BMW, Benz, Audi offer full luxury brands.
Just because Infiniti doesn't have an answer to the the 7 series, 6 series, doesn't mean they are not targeting BMW. So I guess Cadillac or Lincoln isn't a real luxury brand either since they don't have a full luxury line up. Neither is Jaguar nor Land Rover. I don't think anyone will disagree that MB and BMW are the kings of luxury, but brands like Inifiniti are targeting BMW more than they are say Lexus. Lexus and Infiniti atrract two different types of buyers, just like BMW an MB, just like Cadillac does.
I think you would have to be delusional not to say that Lexus hasn't chipped away from MB (I am thinking specifically the RX, LS, and IS) here in U.S. and Infiniti from BMW (the M and G regardless have taking a good chunk of the segment).
I do agree the Germans are superior, they are the top when it comes to luxury and there is nothing like the driving and handling of a European car.
Just because Infiniti doesn't have an answer to the the 7 series, 6 series, doesn't mean they are not targeting BMW. So I guess Cadillac or Lincoln isn't a real luxury brand either since they don't have a full luxury line up. Neither is Jaguar nor Land Rover. I don't think anyone will disagree that MB and BMW are the kings of luxury, but brands like Inifiniti are targeting BMW more than they are say Lexus. Lexus and Infiniti atrract two different types of buyers, just like BMW an MB, just like Cadillac does.
I think you would have to be delusional not to say that Lexus hasn't chipped away from MB (I am thinking specifically the RX, LS, and IS) here in U.S. and Infiniti from BMW (the M and G regardless have taking a good chunk of the segment).
I do agree the Germans are superior, they are the top when it comes to luxury and there is nothing like the driving and handling of a European car.
I see what you are saying but Lexus has an IS F and LFA and offers a sport IS and GS and LS. Infiniti is sportier out the box but has nothing to fight the IS F or LFA. The sportiest car is the Nissan GT R. If Ininiti were a real BMW fighther they would have more cars, move manuals, some program to fight "M" vehicles (not the knock-off name M37/56) etc.
Lexus has an expansive lineup that also attracts BMW types. Its not a bunch of Mercedes only buyers.
I think its unfair to label them Benz/BMW/Audi fighters when Lexus by far fights them all successfully with a broad lineup compared to INfiniti or Acura which are niche brands who seem to attract people who want a cheaper vehicle.
That's fair, Lexus does fight them all. I definitely think Infiniti needs to bring back cars like the Q to compete better, and I think Acrua just needs to go away. I really can't stand those cars and their 'Star Trek' logo, they just seem to try to hard and fail everytime. They don't seem to get any good footing on any segment.
While everyone is arguing their definition of luxury brand, most of these companies are sitting on their laurels, trying to maintain prices that don't reflect value. They better look over their shoulder toward Hyundai and the Equus, because they are going to lose market share.
That's fair, Lexus does fight them all. I definitely think Infiniti needs to bring back cars like the Q to compete better, and I think Acrua just needs to go away. I really can't stand those cars and their 'Star Trek' logo, they just seem to try to hard and fail everytime. They don't seem to get any good footing on any segment.
That's not really true. The third generation TL from 2004-2008 was a huge success for Acura and was second in sales in its class only to the 3-series. The TSX was also a major sales success for Acura as was the MDX that has consistently helped to define the luxury SUV segment. Where Acura has gone wrong is their recent styling direction and the blurring of their product line in both features and price. Acura still builds good product, they have just lost their direction.
I have a feeling this thread will quickly follow others in terms of discussing what is and isn't a luxury brand. There will be those who define it is hitting certain vehicle lineups that the majority of luxury makers have. Others will say it is based upon that brands image in the market place. Others will argue it needs to be judged based on individual product.
I think the right way to categorize it is "full-line" luxury brand vs. "product-line" or "partial-line" luxury brand.
Right now there are really only four full-line luxury brands; Lexus, Mercedes, BMW and Audi. The rest are all product or partial. Some like Cadillac are moving towards becoming full-line while others like Jaguar, Infiniti, Acura, Buick, etc. are content simply competing either as a partial line or with specific product for a sub-segment.
That's not really true. The third generation TL from 2004-2008 was a huge success for Acura and was second in sales in its class only to the 3-series. The TSX was also a major sales success for Acura as was the MDX that has consistently helped to define the luxury SUV segment. Where Acura has gone wrong is their recent styling direction and the blurring of their product line in both features and price. Acura still builds good product, they have just lost their direction.
The ES/TL actually flip flopped between 2nd and 3rd. I think we all would agree that TL was maybe their best sedan ever after the Acura Legend. The MDX came after the RX and X5, it hasn't defined anything really though it sold well. All that fake wood is unforgivable at that price.
That's fair, Lexus does fight them all. I definitely think Infiniti needs to bring back cars like the Q to compete better, and I think Acrua just needs to go away. I really can't stand those cars and their 'Star Trek' logo, they just seem to try to hard and fail everytime. They don't seem to get any good footing on any segment.
Set aside the unfortunate TL with the ugly beak. The current TSX is a very tasteful car, available in both a 4 and 6, with manual transmission. It is a very good car.
The MDX is my favorite mid-size SUV. I think it is far better looking than any BMW X model or the M-B ML. The MDX is excellent in almost every way.
The RL is too soft and badly needs an update. The ZDX is odd and unlikely to be successful.
The 2012 TL pics show a much better looking car. Acura's biggest problem vs. the others is that they have no RWD cars - just FWD or AWD.
Until the economic downturn - Acura was very close to finishing the V10 NSX replacement. I hope it comes back eventually.
I didn't like the buyout but this attitude is pretty ignorant IMO.
It is ignorant, but it generally comes from people who weren't going to buy an American car any way - now they just have another snazzy quip to toss in with their hate.
Ironically, the US was instrumental in rebuilding Japan after WWII so that they could get back on their feet and start building things like Walkman, TVs, VCRs and of course cars so they could "trade" with us. I'm pretty sure our government is going to step in with aid and assistance for the current disaster to get their factories rolling again, besides the humanitarian effort it would be economic disaster to not help the world's third largest economy when it is so intertwined with our own. Our tax dollars at work. Are people with an attitude like that towards GM going to feel the same way about Japanese companies? I doubt it.
It is ignorant, but it generally comes from people who weren't going to buy an American car any way - now they just have another snazzy quip to toss in with their hate.
Ironically, the US was instrumental in rebuilding Japan after WWII so that they could get back on their feet and start building things like Walkman, TVs, VCRs and of course cars so they could "trade" with us. I'm pretty sure our government is going to step in with aid and assistance for the current disaster to get their factories rolling again, besides the humanitarian effort it would be economic disaster to not help the world's third largest economy when it is so intertwined with our own. Our tax dollars at work. Are people with an attitude like that towards GM going to feel the same way about Japanese companies? I doubt it.
Actually what was the most significant was how Japan welcomed and followed William Demming's teachings on continuous improvement whereas American companies ignored him and shunned him. That is why Japan recovered and became such a business force so quickly after the war.
American companies continued to act like they would always have 60-70-80% market share. Ford finally invited Demming in the early 1980s but it was too late.
Now S. Korea has used these Toyota principles of Kaizen. Porsche also used the in the 1990s under the new CEO Wendeling who knew he had to eliminate waste. He credits Toyota's engineers and business model for helping save Porsche.
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but Lexus has an IS F and LFA and offers a sport IS and GS and LS. Infiniti is sportier out the box but has nothing to fight the IS F or LFA. The sportiest car is the Nissan GT R. If Ininiti were a real BMW fighther they would have more cars, move manuals, some program to fight "M" vehicles (not the knock-off name M37/56) etc. 
