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Old 03-24-2011, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Ohio
780 posts, read 2,559,048 times
Reputation: 634

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I used to be a Toyota fan; came from a family with 9 Toyotas at one point. Nowadays, I'm a 51ut, I'll buy almost anything as long as it has the best bang for the buck (up to a certain point of price level). Foreign, domestic make not much difference to me.

Another aspect of having vehicles from the same manufacturer is the ease of maintenance. Having multiple vehicles of the same brand ensures that parts are interchangeable and the variety of fast-moving parts such as oil filter is reduced. Diagnosis is a bit easier when I have two of the same vehicle as I can start swapping the suspect part(s) and pinpoint the problem. Add the simplicity of having one source for parts.

My stable looks like I'm a diehard GM fan (with an M3 stuck amidst), but once something with better bang for the buck, I have no problem switching over. I may have to "taint" the stable as I'm seeing a Viper in the not-so-distant future Am I going to switch to Chrysler ? Who knows I might be, but I don't see that in the near future.

Truly nowadays, badge is just badge. I used to wonder why the instrument cluster on my C5 Z06 and C6 Z06 were so nicely created. They exude an image of high quality, being expensive looking and class while the rest of the interior was disaster (especially true in the C5; C6 interior is not as bad). The question was answered when I took off the C6 Z06 instrument cluster. It was made by Denso. A company which supplies various parts to (and I believe owned by) Toyota. No wonder.

I pity those who have blind faith in automobile brand. No single mass-produced automobile nowadays presents the whole image of its brand. Do you know that a Saturn Vue Redline (no, not just a regular Vue) is powered by a Honda Odyssey engine ? A "high-performance line" in GM line up is powered by a minivan motor of another brand. A typical vehicle is made of so many parts supplied maybe by more than one hundreds suppliers/subcontractors spread all around the world. I find it sadly funny that the recent disaster in Japan has created part-availability problem with GM vehicle production. We live in an essentially global market; bye bye brand loyalty.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:03 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 28,452,688 times
Reputation: 14639
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
If you've always bought Toyotas, would you change to a domestic brand?

---

I, for one, am NOT a brand loyal person. I buy what suits me whether it be made by GMC, Lexus, Nissan, or Ford. I don't really care what brand I purchase if the vehicle suits my wants/needs. There are a few brands I have a disdain for such as Toyota and Mitsubishi but that doesn't mean I would NEVER purchase a vehicle from one, I simply have never found ANY of their lineup appealing to my taste.

Are you a brand loyal person or do you buy a vehicle for the vehicle regardless of what brand it is?
i try and look at each purchase with fresh new eyes, but the same manufacturers keep making the same stuff.

You asked about trucks -- Toyota is like the loyal girlfriend who is good to you, your needs are met, but she is conservative and bland, and can get boring. If you have your priorities in order, you know she is the best choice, regardless of whether you like her "features".

Ford, Dodge and Chevy are like lying, emotionally damaged nympho manhaters with daddy issues. You might be tempted by what you see.... you might say, "This time will be different!".... and it is all fun and games, until 80,000 miles later you are left broke and penniless with herpes.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,472 posts, read 16,334,920 times
Reputation: 4075
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
i try and look at each purchase with fresh new eyes, but the same manufacturers keep making the same stuff.

You asked about trucks -- Toyota is like the loyal girlfriend who is good to you, your needs are met, but she is conservative and bland, and can get boring. If you have your priorities in order, you know she is the best choice, regardless of whether you like her "features".

Ford, Dodge and Chevy are like lying, emotionally damaged nympho manhaters with daddy issues. You might be tempted by what you see.... you might say, "This time will be different!".... and it is all fun and games, until 80,000 miles later you are left broke and penniless with herpes.
That's exactly the type of ignorance that I pointed out as being flawed. Ford and Chevy make some of the most dependable trucks on the road, I GREW UP in truck country! I've seen Silverados and F-Series with 300K+ on the odometer and still running like a champ! You ask any REAL truck guys and none of them will even LOOK AT a Toyota simply because they know Chevy and Ford have proven themselves reliable again and again.

As far as cars go? I think Chrysler/Dodge have always been labeled as being unreliable and costly to repair and to an extent, this was true many years ago but I think in today's world, they're come a LONG ways.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:16 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 28,452,688 times
Reputation: 14639
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
That's exactly the type of ignorance that I pointed out as being flawed. Ford and Chevy make some of the most dependable trucks on the road, I GREW UP in truck country!

You ask any REAL truck guys and none of them will even LOOK AT a Toyota simply because they know Chevy and Ford have proven themselves reliable again and again.
yawn. i don't care where you grew up, or whether you think something is dependable or not, or how many stories you have about trucks and REAL truck guys. Spare me the macho crap, just show me some unbiased, relevant data about used truck reliability, if you want to convince me.

What's interesting, is that if I think a brand has superior reliability, then that makes me "ignorant."

But if YOU think a brand has superior reliabilty, then there is nothing wrong with that because you "grew up in truck country."

I don't think I could've thought up a more hypocritical thread.

Last edited by le roi; 03-24-2011 at 08:36 AM..
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:46 AM
 
32,869 posts, read 18,960,780 times
Reputation: 35664
I'm on my third Honda Accord. I have 317K with no problems, no repairs, and no complaints.

But I ~always~ keep my ear to the ground as to what is out there.

The latest consumer reports is one source, but I like to hear from people who own the cars. I just finished reading up on the VW line up, one model had 49 mpg, the jetta wagon, but the only concern I have is getting it serviced, since I live in rural OK.

So, although I have always liked the Honda vehicles since my parents first bought their 84 Honda, and owned three myself, I am not adverse to going american or S. Korean or whatever if it meets the needs of my driving,~reliability~, since I am rural, long distance, almost 95% highway driving, good to great mileage and affordability.

I am amazed the 2011 Sonata scored higher than the 2011 Accord on the consumer reports ratings.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,472 posts, read 16,334,920 times
Reputation: 4075
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
yawn. i don't care where you grew up, or whether you think something is dependable or not, or how many stories you have about trucks and REAL truck guys. Spare me the macho crap, just show me some unbiased, relevant data about used truck reliability, if you want to convince me.

What's interesting, is that if I think a brand has superior reliability, then that makes me "ignorant."

But if YOU think a brand has superior reliabilty, then there is nothing wrong with that because you "grew up in truck country."

I don't think I could've thought up a more hypocritical thread.
Did I ever ONCE say that Toyota trucks aren't reliable? Never.

What I am saying, from FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE, is that REAL truck guys who use their trucks day in and day out almost always prefer a Ford or Chevy for their work applications.

You want statistics? Tell me the best selling vehicle in America? Ford F-Series. Next best? Chevy Silverado. Where is the Tundra? Not even in the top 10!

Maybe you're too young to understand but first-hand experience is more valuable than statistics. I've been around folks who need a truck to stand up to real-world applications, those folks trust their livelihood to Ford and Chevy...Toyota isn't even in the picture. Not saying Toyotas aren't reliable, simply that Ford and Chevy are what people who actually NEED a truck buy.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:32 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 28,452,688 times
Reputation: 14639
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
What I am saying, from FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE, is that REAL truck guys who use their trucks day in and day out almost always prefer a Ford or Chevy for their work applications.

Maybe you're too young to understand but first-hand experience is more valuable than statistics. I've been around folks who need a truck to stand up to real-world applications, those folks trust their livelihood to Ford and Chevy...Toyota isn't even in the picture. Not saying Toyotas aren't reliable, simply that Ford and Chevy are what people who actually NEED a truck buy.
That's the sort of hypocrisy I was talking about. You should buy a vehicle based on its merits, rather than what your buddies think about the badge on the hood.

Relying on first hand experience gives you a narrow world view. Maybe you're just too old to understand how to find and interpret data.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:05 AM
 
14,781 posts, read 39,691,518 times
Reputation: 14532
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
yawn. i don't care where you grew up, or whether you think something is dependable or not, or how many stories you have about trucks and REAL truck guys. Spare me the macho crap, just show me some unbiased, relevant data about used truck reliability, if you want to convince me.

What's interesting, is that if I think a brand has superior reliability, then that makes me "ignorant."

But if YOU think a brand has superior reliabilty, then there is nothing wrong with that because you "grew up in truck country."

I don't think I could've thought up a more hypocritical thread.
Not that I think CR is the be all end all of everything automotive, but you may be surprised to find that in 2007 the Silverado and Tundra were in a virtual tie and both received a recommended rating. The Tundra's reliability at the time was based on "Toyota's past performance" since the truck was all new. The only better truck than the Sivlerado and Tundra in 2007 was deemed the Chevy Avalanche. Also, remember the Tundra was not really a "full size" truck until 2007.

In 2008 the Tundra lost its recommended rating do to multiple issues the truck experienced in its first sales year, primarily cam shaft failure and issues with the 4WD system. That year the Silverado and F150 were top picks.

In 2009 ALL full size trucks were rated by CR as recommended with the Silverado, F150 and Tundra all within a point of each other and with the Silverado and F150 beating the Tundra on reliability ranking.

It has remained that way ever since, with the Silverado, F150 and Tundra being considered the best full size truck choices. With the Silverado and F-series beinf the only recommended choices when you move out of the half ton segment.

The midsize truck segment is a different story and this has long been dominated by the import brands now. With the Ridgeline and Tacoma far and away considered the best in class offerings.

So, hate to tell you, but when it comes to trucks (not counting the midsize market that the Americans have seemed to pretty much give up on), Ford and Chevy are just as reliable and as highly ranked as Toyota.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:34 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 28,452,688 times
Reputation: 14639
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Not that I think CR is the be all end all of everything automotive, but you may be surprised to find that in 2007 the Silverado and Tundra were in a virtual tie and both received a recommended rating.
i'm not surprised, the 2007 tundra was by far the worst toyota truck in recent years. A major Toyota exec said that its problems "brought shame to the company."

the fact that this truck Toyota considered to be "shameful" was tied with Chevy's best truck, oughta say something, don't you think?


Quote:
So, hate to tell you, but when it comes to trucks (not counting the midsize market that the Americans have seemed to pretty much give up on), Ford and Chevy are just as reliable and as highly ranked as Toyota.
It is interesting that you can read what you just wrote, and come to that conclusion.

First, I'm not sure if you're talking about new or used trucks. Reviewing a brand new truck for reliability will not tell you very much about how they hold up over time.

The conclusion I come to is the Tacoma whips the Ranger's ass in every way, in every year, and that this is germane to the discussion, rather than something that can be dismissed as irrelevant.

and the 2000-2006 Tundra whips the F-150 and Silverado's ass, of similar years, when it comes to reliability...

and the 2007-2008 Tundras were the worst Toyota trucks in many years, were a brand new design, and still matched the reliability of the Ford and Chevy trucks that had years to work out the kinks in their designs.

and that the only rational reason to buy a Ford or Chevy truck is if you want something BIGGER than what Toyota offers.

Last edited by le roi; 03-24-2011 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 13,346,118 times
Reputation: 4846
I've owned over a hundred cars, from most major manufacuters worldwide. I've had American (Ford, GM, Chrysler and AMC) German (VW, BMW, Porsche), French (Renault) Japanese (Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Datsun/Nissan, Suzuki, Subaru), Korean (Hyundai), Swedish (Saab and Volvo), Italian (Fiat), and British (MG, Triumph, Jaguar, Land Rover). I like cars. Brand is something they happen to be, though I do know that brand also makes a difference in carmaking philosophy. You know when buying a BMW, for instance, that there is going to be an emphasis on handling, road feel, and agility that will not be the same in a Toyota or Chrysler. Each brand has it's strong points and weak points.

But I'd never pick one flavor and say that's all I'm going to ever live with any more than I'd say, "I know I like spaghetti, so I'm only going to have spaghetti for dinner every day. I like it so why should I have anything else?" To me, that's sad.

I pick cars on an individual basis. That the car is made by a certain brand is a data point, not a requirement OR a detriment. Ever.
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