what cars of the late 80's or early 90's do you think will become future collector cars? (manual transmission, convertibles)

[Linson]

Originally Posted by Felix C

^^^you mentioned your experience is based on input from two boards. One I do have experience with the other a very minor board with few inputs.

I said you have no standing to say "many" which is what you did indicate and that is correct.

okay. maybe i should have said many of those subscribers "may" or "might" agree with me. i do know for a fact that many 4th gen owners on LS1LT1 do in fact also own 3rd gens. its a big F-Body family. there is no real 3rd gen vs 4th gen rivalry.

your point [that people who are dedicated to 4th gen F-bodies might be biased in their opinion] is taken. as i'm sure, a lot of the people who subscribe to 3rdgen.org may be biased.

but what you have been silent on is my point [that unbiased people would be more likely to lean toward 3rd gens based strictly on looks.]

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Linson

it seems that there is becoming a general consensus that 3rd gen F-bodies are better looking cars than 4th gens.

This is a joke right? Those things are hideous, while the 4th gens are one of the prettiest cars ever made.

What makes a car collectible is not necessarily that it was a great car, but that it was unique and limited in number. However many cars from the 1980s especially were just junk. I cannot see anyone ever collecting Pontiac Sunbirds other than to laugh at them. But collectable can also include the stupidest car ever made, so you never know.



I think that the Mazda RX7 with a rotary engine will be a collected car if any survive. The early ones have a problem with the interiors decaying in sunlight.

those early Honda CVCCs may be collected. Those might predate the 1980s. I think I had one that was a 1980. It may have been the last year for those before they came out with the newer larger civic. I am not sure whether the Civic still had the third valve. They did not get anywhere near the same mileage.

Datsun 280 Zx.

Toyota Supra.

Pontiac Aztec.

Subaru XT Turbo (the one that raises up to curb height when you stop and lowers when you start driving)

Chrysler-Masarati

1994 and 1995 Camaro and Firebirds (before they put those stupid looking Toyota looking front ends/head lights on them)

The various pick up/car cross over vehicles are already collected. Some are form the 80s. (The Brat for one).

Was it Mitsubishi or Datsun/Nissan that made the Spider GT (little sports car with a convertible hard top that tucks away into the trunk at the push of a button)

The 1980s was a pretty awful time for American cars. The Mustangs and Camaros were awful looking and had pretty lousy performance. Even the Corvette got boring looking for a while. Things improved in the 1990s.

[The Continental]

Mitsubishi made the 3000GT convertible and an Eclipse Spyder (convertible)

[Linson]

[quote=coldjensens;19684580]

this is a joke right? Those things are hideous, while the 4th gens are one of the prettiest cars ever made.

What makes a car collectible is not necessarily that it was a great car, but that it was unique and limited in number. However many cars from the 1980s especially were just junk. I cannot see anyone ever collecting pontiac sunbirds other than to laugh at them. But collectable can also include the stupidest car ever made, so you never know.

uh huh. Based on some of the information in this post (above and below) i'm not sure if you really know what you [or i] am talking about.

And objectively speaking, 4th gen f-bodies were more unique in their time than were the 4 gen f-bodies in that, in their time, their was really nothing else on the road that could could be confused with one. Both 3rd and 4th gens were made in very large numbers, although you see suprisingly few well kept survivors today - especially 3rd gens.

pontiac aztec.

is THIS a joke? And you say that 3rd gen f-bodies are "hideous?"

1994 and 1995 camaro and firebirds (before they put those stupid looking toyota looking front ends/head lights on them)

see, i'm not sure if you really know your history all that well on this subject. fun fact: the Camaros and Firebirds retained the same styling through 1997. in '98 the Camaros (and Camaros only) got a Chrysler Concord-looking front end. the Firebirds recieved a more round and bulbous front end and the WS6 models saw the introduction of the, in retro-spect, over-the-top looking double decker ram air hood, which would go on to be emulated on many a ricer's Honda Civic.

the various pick up/car cross over vehicles are already collected. Some are form the 80s. (the brat for one).

okay. Some people collect toe nail clippings.

The 1980s was a pretty awful time for american cars. The mustangs and camaros were awful looking and had pretty lousy performance. Even the corvette got boring looking for a while. Things improved in the 1990s.

we are all aware that the 80's began as a dismal decade for automotive performance. but what you may not be aware of is that the mid to late eighties saw the revival of automotive performance in the form of the 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds, and the Fox body 5.0 Mustangs. with the introduction of the 4th generation of Camaros/Firebirds in 1993, performance improved. with the introduction of the (i guess 4th?) generation of Mustangs in 1994, performance actually declined. fewer horsepower and a heavier car. stock performance did not improve until the 2000 model year by which time Ford was already in the second year of a subsequent body style generation.

[flynavyj]

The majority of the thirdgen LS1 conversions you find will be Here. When i was in college i had a friend who put a LS1/T-56 combo into his 89 RS, and i've got plans to add one to my 85 Firebird when finances improve GIMMIE MONEY!!!

As to which car looks better, i kinda like them both. My car is a bit of a mutant though, with 4th gen interior, and hopefully a 4th gen drivetrain soon. I do like the exterior of the third generation however, as they seem somewhat understated compared to the last generation of 4th gens. I am still a sucker for last iteration of WS6 Trans Ams!

As to performance, the mid 70's through early 80's really really sucked!!!! By the mid 1980's most of the performance had began to come around, and by the 90's it was in full swing again. But don't think everything from the 1980's was a slouch. A Grand National would have blown the doors off nearly in "stock" vehicle of it's day, and with tuning they were running 12 second quarter miles all day long...and were even faster if you went a little more into it. The 89 Turbo Trans Am also managed to be the fastest production firebird (excluding firehawks) until the introduction of the WS6 based LS1 Trans Am's, which squeaked passed the old 3.8L Turbo in the 1/4 mile. Both cars could be modified like crazy for additional power, but the 89 TTA would most likely be more rare in the long run.

I also find it pretty cool that both the 89 TTA was able to an indy pace car without performance modifications to the vehicles. I think they got roll cages, for the track but am unsure about that as well...hmmmm...i need to refresh on my thirdgen history!

PS, i think the corvette remained essentially unchanged from 1984-1996. While the interiors were updated, and the engines were replaced with newer mills, the car itself was essentially the same minus molding, driving lights, front/rear facia, and wheel options...so visually, they're not ALL that different, which makes me think if one was considered "boring" the other would be considered "boring" as well...and in all honesty the C5 isn't all that interesting either....Would probably rather own a C3, even an 82 model would work...especially since i wouldn't feel bad ganking the old 180hp v8 and dropping in something a tad more "enjoyable"

[Linson]

And objectively speaking, 4th gen f-bodies were more unique in their time than were the 4 gen f-bodies in that, in their time, their was really nothing else on the road that could be confused with one.

meant to write 3rd gen right there.

[stevo75]

I owned a 1989 5.0 LX Hatch and miss it dearly I hope to get me a 93 in the near future.

One car that I didn't see mentioned in here is the 1993 and maybe even the 92 Dodge Daytona Iroc R/T. Back when I had my LX I had a friend who owned the 93 R/T and I couldn't believe a 4 banger could stay with me.

Edit: If I recall i think it has a lotus motor or lotus was involved in the power plant?

[sdlife619]

I have to add some American Luxury into the mix after all the racer/ ricer talk.

My definite guess will be that the 80-92 Cadillac Brougham's will command a high price in the very near future. The 91 and 92's that have the D' Elegance package with the 5.7 engine, will be more collectible due to it having more power and a nicer interior, such as button tufted leather seats.

Also the 93-96 Fleetwood Broughams is another car that will become collectible, specifically the 94-96 with the LT1 engine. It's the last of the RWD Cadillac's, size and presence was what this car represented. It wasn't in production that long, and Cadillac didn't build a whole bunch of them either, and they are hard to find.

80's Town Cars, and Town Cars from 90-97 will slowly start to gain popularity since Lincoln is no longer going to build Town Cars. The reasoning behind all this popularity will be forced upon luxury car buyers that wish and want a very large American RWD vehicle. Cadillac doesn't make anything close to a Town Car, the DTS is going by the way side. Lincoln wont build anymore Body On Frame RWD's, so where else are people that love a soft comfy living room like luxury car going to turn to? The domestic automakers have essentially alienated this group of folks.

Plus the styling of the 80's and early 90's Cadillac Fleetwoods and Lincoln Town Cars had class, and actually look like a Cadillac and Lincoln! Unlike today.

So, this will be the reason behind the resurgence of these cars, the last of the big RWD Framed luxo-liners rejoice!

[Felix C]

Originally Posted by Linson

but what you have been silent on is my point [that unbiased people would be more likely to lean toward 3rd gens based strictly on looks.]

I did address that but you missed it on your mission to promote the 3rd Gen over the 4th.

Looks are subjective. You prefer them...fine but have no data to say "many" and now "generally" are preferred.

As for this:
"And objectively speaking, 3rd gen f-bodies were more unique in their time than were the 4 gen f-bodies in that, in their time, their was really nothing else on the road that could could be confused with one. Both 3rd and 4th gens were made in very large numbers, although you see suprisingly few well kept survivors today - especially 3rd gens."

No way to confuse a 4th Gen either. There is no point you are making above as there is no objectively speaking in anything you say as you are promoting the 3rd Gens.
I think pristine 3rdGens are few and far between becuase just like the late '70s F-bodies they were driven into the ground and the poor engines and difficult electronics do not make the car desirable to restore. At least the smog laden late '70s cars had a 350CID or 400/403CID depending on the manufacturer. 305CID was a very poorly regarded engine and I did live through that era.

[miu]

Everyones tastes in cars are different. My personal list of collectible cars would be clean unmolested examples of:
E30 BMW's like the 325is, 325ix and of course the M3.
Hondas from the 70's, 80's and Civic hatchbacks up to 1995.
1988 Toyota Celica Alltrac
1987 Audi Quattro
Mazda 323 GTX
Toyota Starlet
VW Scirocco - 1st gen
Mazda RX-7 - 1st gen and 3rd gen
Renault LeCar
Peugeot 205


^^^ All would be welcomed in my garage!!!

Sure, Honda made a ton of Civic hatches, but it's rare to find one that hasn't been modded and trashed up by some street racer and the ones in the Northeast are getting rusty.