Ever get pulled over for no reason and then not receive a ticket? (2009, red light)

[car54]

When I was a kid back about 1970, I pulled into one of my dad's gas stations and was pumping gas into my car (this was before Self Serve, so that alone might have looked unusual). The gas filler was in the rear as was common in those days, so I was facing towards the front of the car. Then, I hear a stern "don't turn around and put your hands on your head"...I thought it was one of my dad's guys playing around, so I turned around anyway.

There was like 4 or 5 cops with shotguns and handguns trained on me! I had grabbed a few gears coming down the road, but nothing to justify that display of force. They cuffed me, patted me down, and put me in the back of a cruiser.

Turns out some guy had just gone berserk at the County courthouse and shot 3 cops before escaping in a car identical to mine ('67 GTO).

They soon figured out I wasn't their man, apologized and let me go...but I'll never forget it....LOL.

[Themanwithnoname]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Driving is NOT a right but a privilege.
That's why you have a licensee and you agreed to the terms of having one when you got your Lic.

Actually I could argue this... restricting transportation etc, but that's more the arena of the 'Sovereign Citizen wackos' so I'll agree that it is ENFORCED this way... (Different from what is correct, or right)

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Deny taking a alcohol test and see what happens.
Your car is not your home you don't have the same rights in your vehicle.

Depends on the state actually.

Originally Posted by snofarmer

In the back seat or in bracelets, is for your protection and for the officers safety. So get over being embarrassed.

Sorry, no. It's not about embarrassment, it's about how I am treated as a free American.

Originally Posted by snofarmer

and I wouldn't fault a cop for having his hand on his weapon when he approaches your car.

And?

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Again, if your doing nothing wrong you will be on your way.

Yes, the old "If your not breaking the law, you have nothing to fear" argument...

Originally Posted by snofarmer

There has to be something that aroused the cop to "just" stop you. Maybe his suspicions were put to rest when he made contact with you and nothing further happens and maybe he finds something to investigate and ticket you for.

No there doesn't.Police officers are people too. They could just not like the model of your car... or ANY reason.
Ever heard of DWB?
(Driving while Black)

Originally Posted by snofarmer

I don't think he was just sitting there thinking , Hey, I'll stop the 5th car to go by and see what I can find.

mayyyyybeeeee

Originally Posted by 1badgmc

Tell the cop no and see what happens. Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll just let you go without anything else. Maybe he'll take the next step and you'll be stuck on the side of the road longer and it'll turn into a more embarrassing situation. I'd rather just get it over with and make him feel better about everything. Keep the cop satisfied and he won't cause you anymore hassle.

You should educate yourself as to your rights and responsibilities as an American.

Originally Posted by prettyvacant

There is a difference between guns and a bottle of soda (or scissors, or just pliers).

9/11 gave a good excuse for the Big Brother to make another huge step.

This is not about security, it's about control. Maybe it's a topic for another forum.

Your right. Soda and scissors arn't specifically protected in the Bill of Rights.

You misunderstand... It's not about guns that makes me refuse to fly commercial as much as possible.

It's about being groped (Unless she's hot) and the treatment we receive.
(And it doesn't help that my shoulders are wider than the seats in Business class)

I flew last year due to 'family' (Lets simplify it)

WHO needs to be selected for the more invasive search?

Your guy in his late 20's checking through security with a high and tight, cane, and medically retired Military ID card... OR the party going through security at the same time who look JUST LIKE the 9/11 hijackers?

Profiling works.

SO naturally you check the disabled Marine!
(BOTH ways!)

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

To far, not at all,
Because you did.

You signed off on search and seizure.
Your car can be searched with out a search warrant.
You can be cuffed and stuff for no other reason than for the cops safety. (If your walking on the sidewalk or in your home this would not have happened.)
Refuse a sobriety test, no prof your drunk, no due process, no prof you did anything other than refuse to take a test and see the fine and suspension of your driving "privileges"

The right not to wear a seat belt, nope.


Your right all of your "rights" are intact.

You're going to have to do better than that to be convincing. How about a cite to a law, or court decisions, that says what you are saying?

[Themanwithnoname]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

No mater the reason the cop stopped you for they can search any area that is within reach of the drivers seat, for the cops safety and IF the cop finds anything illegal he can use it.

It doesn't mater if the vehicle is yours or not.

Kinda.

Only within reach that might be a weapon or threat to a cop.

He can't open a pack of smokes to see WHAT you are smoking for instance. (I've never smoked ANYTHING in my life... tobacco included)

OR, if you step out of your car and shut the door...

He can't. (Which is why I usually do this)

[Themanwithnoname]

Not quite:

Originally Posted by snofarmer

What rights? search and sezure?

As stated earlier any cop can search anywhere he can reach from the drivers seat without your permission.

See previous statement

Originally Posted by snofarmer

They ask for permission to search your trunk because they have any probable cause and it is out of your immediate control.

Nope, If they HAVE probable cause, they won't ask.

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Then the dog shows up and alerts, and pop goes the trunk lid all without a search warrant.

If they can keep you that long. There are regs... but that goes under Probable cause.
(Although it shouldn't based on what a K9 buddy of mine has told me about being able to make the dog alert!)

Originally Posted by snofarmer

So what rights? Driving is a privilege and you signed away your rights when you got your rivers lic.

See previous

Originally Posted by snofarmer

If thew tow/ impound your car they will do a inventory of the contents again with out a warrant.

You can actually opt to have someone else pick it up insted. Like Jurry Nulification, most people don't know this.

Originally Posted by snofarmer

So whats the embarrassment?



ps dumb cops... Most have at least a 2 year degree or a 4 year degree. Then they are all the VETs that are cops the very same ones everyone is thanking for their service but if this same guy pulls you over they now are a stupid idiot?

Everybody remember, cops meet even the nicest people on their worst day.

I go out of my way to make their job easier, but I won;t allow myself to be walked on, and if I come across 'that kind' of cop... well it wasn't over a month ago that I had an 'encounter' with one who took exception to my Disabled Vet plates in a Handicapped parking space (As I can do, but only do so when I'm hurting and need to limit my walking)

His Boss gave me a VERY nice apology the next day.

[Themanwithnoname]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

To far, not at all,
Because you did.

You signed off on search and seizure.
Your car can be searched with out a search warrant.
You can be cuffed and stuff for no other reason than for the cops safety. (If your walking on the sidewalk or in your home this would not have happened.)
Refuse a sobriety test, no prof your drunk, no due process, no prof you did anything other than refuse to take a test and see the fine and suspension of your driving "privileges"

The right not to wear a seat belt, nope.


Your right all of your "rights" are intact.

Incorrect.

You can also be detained (I THINK it's 24 hours) Without charges.

This has NOTHING to do with driving.

Nor does a Terry Frisk etc.

[snofarmer]

A lot of you sure are naive.

With out probable cause all they need at this point is a suspicion or for their safety, they can search you and any where you or the cop can reach from the drivers seat without your permission or a warrant.

Get out of your car on a cop and you will be told to get back in refuse a legal order and get some locking bracelets.
The cop can enter your car if you get out for many reasons.

A lot of you need to go look your states laws and when you agreed to the privilege of driving on the public streets signed away some of your rights. See your DWI , dui laws. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169A.52

"You can be cuffed and stuff for no other reason than for the cops safety. (If your walking on the sidewalk or in your home this would not have happened.)"
Not incorrect at all read what I posted again.

[snofarmer]

The search and seizure provisions of the Fourth Amendment are all about privacy. To honor this freedom, the Fourth Amendment protects against "unreasonable" searches and seizures by state or federal law enforcement authorities.
The flip side is that the Fourth Amendment does permit searches and seizures that are considered reasonable. In practice, this means that the police may override your privacy concerns and conduct a search of you, your home, barn, car, boat, office, personal or business documents, bank account records, trash barrel, or whatever, if:
the particular circumstances justify the search without a warrant first being issued.

When the police look for and find a weapon on the front seat of a car, it is not considered a search under the Fourth Amendment because it is very unlikely that the person would think that the front seat of the car is a private place (an expectation of privacy is unlikely), and even if the person did, society is not willing to extend the protections of privacy to that particular location (no objective expectation of privacy).

The Fourth Amendment, as it is generally understood, protects you from unreasonable search and seizure. The Supreme Court has looked at a number of cases involving Fourth Amendment rights and warrantless searches. In most instances, the officer can conduct a search if they have probable cause to do so. This is essentially a hunch backed up by reasonable suspicion. There may be something in your behavior, your physical appearance, or the physical appearance of your vehicle that would prompt an officer to search.
For example, you might have been pulled over because you were driving erratically. However, a smell coming from the car or signs of slowed reflexes on your part may have indicated you are using some type of drug or alcohol. If the officer decided to search your car from glove box to trunk based on the suspicion that you are using and possibly transporting an illegal substance, this would be probable cause.



Other cases involving the search of cars have involved the "plain view" standard and the right of police to search passengers' belongings found in a car. In Chimel v. California, the court held that police may search the person and all areas under a person's control or reach. Anything in "plain view" can be seized. This standard includes car searches. In Wyoming v. Houghton (1999), the court ruled that if the officer has probable cause to search the car, they can also inspect passengers' belongings. The idea is that the item, a purse for example, might conceal the object of an officer's search.

Some defendants believe that if they can show that a search was illegal, the case must be dismissed. Not true. If a prosecutor has enough other evidence to prove the defendant guilty, the case can continue. Also, the illegally-seized evidence can be:considered by a judge when deciding on an appropriate sentence following conviction-admitted in civil cases and deportation cases, and in some circumstances, be used by a prosecutor to impeach (attack the credibility of) a witness who testifies in the trial. Fruit of the poisonous tree.

Search & Seizure of the Trunk of a Car
The same reasoning can be applied in the case of a trunk. It would be in control of the car's driver, and barring some unusual circumstance, within his or her reach. A trunk generally conceals its contents. So, an officer may look there if there is a belief that what he is searching for might be in the trunk.
No Warrant is Required to Search a Car
Another point on law enforcement's side is that cars are generally excepted from the advance warrant requirement because of their mobile nature. This gives them license to conduct warrantless searches of cars. An officer only has to meet the probable cause standard in most instances. This is relatively easy to do. Proving that an officer did not have probable cause is much more difficult and has only succeeded in a few cases.

[Dunbar42]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

With out probable cause all they need at this point is a suspicion or for their safety, they can search you and any where you or the cop can reach from the drivers seat without your permission or a warrant.

The supreme court has weighed in on this. They can frisk (not search) you only if they suspect you are armed and dangerous. A minor traffic infraction does not constitute reasonable suspicion that the driver is armed and dangerous...

Accordingly, we hold that, in a traffic-stop setting, the first Terry condition—a lawful investigatory stop—is met whenever it is lawful for police to detain an automobile and its occupants pending inquiry into a vehicular violation...To justify a patdown of the driver or a passenger during a traffic stop, however, just as in the case of a pedestrian reasonably suspected of criminal activity, the police must harbor reasonable suspicion that the person subjected to the frisk is armed and dangerous."

A similar precedent applies to searching the area of the vehicle accessible to the driver:

"Thus, the search of the passenger compartment of an automobile, limited to those areas in which a weapon may be placed or hidden, is permissible if the police officer possesses a reasonable belief based on specific and articulable facts which, taken together with the rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the officer to believe that the suspect is dangerous and the suspect may gain immediate control of weapons. "

[snofarmer]

If you were a cop you would think or should think that anyone could/can/will pose a threat to you.

What do you think a pat down is? It is a search.

No judge is going to fault a cop for searching you.
All a cop has to say is I did it for my safety.
They can even cuff you and put you in the squad for their safety and yours
Just refuse and see what happens.

my post #78 is right on the mark, maybe you need to read it again?

I got a "A" in search and seizure.