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If you consider the strides in engineering technology made elsewhere in our society, it seems to me the modern automobile is lazy, dated, and generally poorly-crafted.
One can still find corporations who put out great products at a great price, built by people who take pride in their work. In my opinion, that describes not a single major auto manufacturer in the world.
The domestics are legendary for putting out terrible products, although they show signs of substantial improvement. The Germans put out sexy cars that go fast, then break down with utter consistency; nothing has changed here. Toyota and Honda's slide from respectability is nothing short of depressing for enthusiasts.
VTEC technology is literally older than I am, and Honda hasn't improved on this in 20 years. Broadly, cars of similar size and weight get maybe 10 percent better gas mileage than they did 30 years ago. How pathetic is that?
I'm an engineer. I can't help but consider where this kind of sloppiness would lead one in my field. The answer, of course, is homelessness. But the automakers know that America is a large country filled with folks who need to get to work.
I test drove 8 new vehicles yesterday. Some 50K some 30K. All were clearly not well-made vehicles. Consider that I'm anything but a picky or snobby car guy. I'm talking about obvious, major engineering flaws everywhere. It was depressing.
*Angry rant from a guy about to drop too much on a poorly-crafted vehicle because he needs to get to work*
Frankly, I disagree with a number of your assessments.
For example, go check out the new Mustang....which gets 30mpg.
Car quality across the board is at all-time highs.
Why don't you tell us what general type of vehicle you are looking for?
Why would it be in their interest to build the perfect car ? It would be commercial suicide, because it would never need replaced !
Yes, correct. Remember, no matter how much you fall in love with your vehicle. Give it names, drive it carefully, garage it in bad weather, use all the right fluids...all you have is an appliance. You have a dishwasher with wheels, a fridge with an engine, a tv with seats. That's the bottom line. The whole idea is to build at a reasonable cost enough product to serve a calculated amount of customers who are looking to replace their old appliance with a "bigger, better, faster, newer" model and make money while doing so. The goal is not and never was to make a lasting product of top quality.
the first thing you have to understand about automobiles is that NONE of them are perfect, and NONE of them ever will be. take the rolls-royce fro instance. it is a hand crafted, hand built car using only the best materials. and YET these cars do not last forever. engines wear out as fluids break down, seat materials wear out from constant use, door hinges wear out, etc.
the automakers spend tons of money each year in research and development for all systems on the car. honda for instance spend upwards of $50 million just to develop race engines for formula one, and that engineering does trickle down to the street.
ford spent millions to refine the durability of their electronics, their testing ground was formula one, and as a result ford computers rarely fail, but they do fail, as does all electronics.
building an automobile is the epitome of compromise, since the automakers dont know what or where the car is going to be used. it also requires that the be fairly easy to build and work on. the higher the production rates of the car, the easier it has to be to assemble quickly.
so you can rant and rave about how "bad" the engineering is on modern automobiles, but the reality is that automobiles, especially modern ones, are highly engineered pieces of equipment, and they get better all the time.
Name me one other invention of man that we use on a daily basis that is designed to fill multiple roles in multiple situations, owned and operated by a plethora of different people of varying skillsets, that must meet an endless littany of ever changing regulations and is essentially constrained by price factors to meet the largest pool of consumers possible and is more reliable than an automobile?
I can't think of one.
It reminds of the old circulating joke...
At a computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release (by Mr. Welch himself) stating:
1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.
4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.
6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five percent of the roads.
7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.
8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off.
10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.
Exactly as stated. What thing do you own thY will likely last for 10 years being outdoors in all elements, with minimal care.
Cars are safer and more powerful.
As said look at the mustang.
1985, v8 made like 170 HP and got like 17 mpg,
1992, v8 made like 215 HP and got like 17 mpg, burned cleaner
1998, v8 made like 215 HP got like 18 mpg and safer, better emissions.
2000, v8 made 265 HP gets like 20 mpg
2005, v8 makes 300 HP, and gets low 20s mpg, and burns cleaner, safer.
2011, the v6 base model makes 300hp and gets 30 mpg burns cleaner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
Name me one other invention of man that we use on a daily basis that is designed to fill multiple roles in multiple situations, owned and operated by a plethora of different people of varying skillsets, that must meet an endless littany of ever changing regulations and is essentially constrained by price factors to meet the largest pool of consumers possible and is more reliable than an automobile?
I can't think of one.
It reminds of the old circulating joke...
At a computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release (by Mr. Welch himself) stating:
1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.
4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.
6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five percent of the roads.
7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.
8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off.
10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.
I test drove 8 new vehicles yesterday. Some 50K some 30K. All were clearly not well-made vehicles. Consider that I'm anything but a picky or snobby car guy. I'm talking about obvious, major engineering flaws everywhere. It was depressing.
*Angry rant from a guy about to drop too much on a poorly-crafted vehicle because he needs to get to work*
Hey! It's your fault you "want" a new vehicle not the auto industry. There are millions of quality used vehicles to choose from but you gotta "want" new just to be your daily driver.
Give me a break already!
If you are an engineer then you should know that engineers are part of the manufacturing process which consist of engineering, manufacturing and quality control. Failure of design process at the engineering level dooms any product to failure.
Instead of a "new" car that you "want" shop for a good used car to be your daily driver that will fill the "need" and you can pocket the savings.
2011, the v6 base model makes 300hp and gets 30 mpg burns cleaner.
Reportedly, they are working on an update or replacement for that V-6 that gets 350-360hp & 38mpg. That would be very impressive.
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