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Old 12-25-2011, 02:13 AM
 
89 posts, read 409,072 times
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I would like to share a few experiences and ask what do you think of these scenarios and what were the dealers thinking, and whether they were using a tactic on me.

dealership 1. They did not have a specific make/model I was looking for. After I explained my price range and the types of vehicles I 'd be interested in, the salesman told me "I just sold x vehicle about an hour ago, it was very clean, low miles etc etc....it's too bad you didn't come an hour before", another salesman confirmed that they just sold this "nice and clean" vehicle within my price range-they made it seem like such a good deal and I was unfortunate to have missed it. The salesman kept going on and on about how nice that car was and how it would have fit me perfectly ( a little suspicious to me how he would spend so much time trying to "sell me" a car that was already sold). The next day I receive a call (I let it go to voicemail) telling me "I have great news for you, the other guy's loan didn't go through and the car I told you about is now available". I went and looked at the car, didn't like it and didn't buy it. My question is, what are the chances the other guys loan truly didn't go through? Or did they have that vehicle at another location and wanted to sell it badly, and played this game to make me want to buy it?

dealership 2. Went to this dealership looking for a particular model within my price range (my price range being about 3k less than average price of that vehicle). I found one close to my price range, only that one car available for 2-3k less than other similar models at that dealership. I offered to pay that price out the door, we agreed, and I was to go back within a couple days with down payment and make the purchase. When I went back the manager asked me for 1k more than we agreed on (and shows me the kbb value to prove his new price is fair). I forgot to mention before I walked in another salesman came out, I asked him about that car (which I already knew everything about it and was going to buy it) and he told me a price which was 3k more than the asking price 2 days ago! He also told me the car just came in today (which is not true, the other salesman, who I saw 2 days ago and car was there, told me the reason this car is cheaper is because it has been sitting there for about a month).

Ofcourse I did not end up buying, but my question is: Why would the sales manager change his mind on the price we agreed on, especially if he knew I came back to purchase the car?

dealership 3. Went looking for a specific model. Only one was available within my price range. I made an offer (apprx 2k less than asking price, which came out to asking price out the door), the salesman told me we can work something out-and was quick to pretty much accept the offer. Sales manager refused my offer and wanted $900 more to close the deal.
My question is: Doesn't the salesman know the price they can sell the car for? Was the manager trying to make even more money out of the car or did the salesman not really know they were not making profit with my offer?


Since I'm still looking for a car I also wanted to ask whether it's a good idea to make a deal with the dealership and finance through them as long as they lower the price more than they would if I was to get financed somewhere else? Is this something dealers will consider? I ask because they don't seem to care where I get financed

Thanks and sorry for the long post!
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,706,817 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by nas-gr View Post
dealership 1. They did not have a specific make/model I was looking for. After I explained my price range and the types of vehicles I 'd be interested in, the salesman told me "I just sold x vehicle about an hour ago, it was very clean, low miles etc etc....it's too bad you didn't come an hour before", another salesman confirmed that they just sold this "nice and clean" vehicle within my price range-they made it seem like such a good deal and I was unfortunate to have missed it. The salesman kept going on and on about how nice that car was and how it would have fit me perfectly ( a little suspicious to me how he would spend so much time trying to "sell me" a car that was already sold). The next day I receive a call (I let it go to voicemail) telling me "I have great news for you, the other guy's loan didn't go through and the car I told you about is now available". I went and looked at the car, didn't like it and didn't buy it. My question is, what are the chances the other guys loan truly didn't go through? Or did they have that vehicle at another location and wanted to sell it badly, and played this game to make me want to buy it?
It is very possible the other guy's deal didn't go through. The salesman could be telling the truth, however more then likely the dealer either didn't have the car available yet (still in the shop, still in detail) and they were just tring to keep you on the hook until it was ready to be shown. Or like you said, it was at another location. As far as there being another car exactly like it that you just missed out on, who knows? Maybe there was something close - maybe they are embellishing, liek you said it doesn't matter it was gone anyway.

Quote:
dealership 2.
Quote:
Went to this dealership looking for a particular model within my price range (my price range being about 3k less than average price of that vehicle). I found one close to my price range, only that one car available for 2-3k less than other similar models at that dealership. I offered to pay that price out the door, we agreed, and I was to go back within a couple days with down payment and make the purchase. When I went back the manager asked me for 1k more than we agreed on (and shows me the kbb value to prove his new price is fair). I forgot to mention before I walked in another salesman came out, I asked him about that car (which I already knew everything about it and was going to buy it) and he told me a price which was 3k more than the asking price 2 days ago! He also told me the car just came in today (which is not true, the other salesman, who I saw 2 days ago and car was there, told me the reason this car is cheaper is because it has been sitting there for about a month).

Ofcourse I did not end up buying, but my question is: Why would the sales manager change his mind on the price we agreed on, especially if he knew I came back to purchase the car?
He realized he priced the car too low. Maybe a shop ticket closed and he had more in the car then he realized. It is THEIR property, they have every right to sleep on it, change their mind, ask their wives, etc etc if they should sell a car at a certain price. They can also walk away from a deal too. Verbal agreements mean nothing. Get it in writing.

Quote:
dealership 3
Quote:
Went looking for a specific model. Only one was available within my price range. I made an offer (apprx 2k less than asking price, which came out to asking price out the door), the salesman told me we can work something out-and was quick to pretty much accept the offer. Sales manager refused my offer and wanted $900 more to close the deal.
My question is: Doesn't the salesman know the price they can sell the car for? Was the manager trying to make even more money out of the car or did the salesman not really know they were not making profit with my offer?
Salesman don't always know what the dealer has invested in a car. It is the sales manager's job to decide what deals to accept and what profit to make.

Quote:
Since I'm still looking for a car I also wanted to ask whether it's a good idea to make a deal with the dealership and finance through them as long as they lower the price more than they would if I was to get financed somewhere else? Is this something dealers will consider? I ask because they don't seem to care where I get financed

Thanks and sorry for the long post!
I don't know. You have to make that decision. If you want to go the extra step of getting your own money through your own bank or credit union then go for it. However, doing so can just make the process longer. Just become educated with your credit score and what you would qualify for or find out what your local credit union would offer you and ask to dealer to beat it and save time/money in the process.

Last edited by Tourian; 12-26-2011 at 09:21 AM..
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,390,930 times
Reputation: 2463
You want a car for $3,000 less than what it's worth, give or take, and you wonder why you're having problems obtaining it?
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: United State of Texas
1,707 posts, read 6,201,902 times
Reputation: 2135
Car dealers are simply businesses like any other.

Get on the net. Find the car(s) you want or like. Locate by searching. Go look at them. Retail and wholesale prices are readily available online so you'll know what to expect. Dealers are not going to give away a popular model no matter what you think you should be able to buy it for. They aren't stupid hillbillies that are going to be taken as some internet cowboys would like to have you believe.

You can still get a square deal as long as you know what the numbers should be.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
9,614 posts, read 21,210,895 times
Reputation: 13664
Dealership 1 - 2 possibilities, Number one is that they were at least somewhat honest, that they did have the car and someone else had dibs on it. Maybe the other guy did get denied financing, or maybe he just had a deposit on it and decided he didn't want the car. The other possibility is that it was all bunk; maybe they had a guy at the auction that day and they made up that story to keep you on the line just in case they brought something back from the auction that you were looking for.

Dealership 2 - There are a few possibilities. They may have reached a sales goal in between your first and second visits and no longer needed to sell the car as badly as they thought they did the first time you were there. Or they may have hoped that you had talked yourself into buying the car and gambled that you would pay a little more. Or maybe they had someone else looking at it by that time. Since most dealerships finance their floor plan it could be that the bank had something to say about it. And there are many more reasons why they might have done this, bottom line is that you didn't close the deal so they had every right to raise the price.

Dealership 3 - A car salesman's job is to get as much as he or she can out of a car. Salespeople are usually kept in the dark about what the dealerships have invested in the cars in order to prevent them from picking up the easy sale by pricing every car at the minimum. As stated above, the price the dealership is willing to sell a car can vary from day to day based on a number of factors. It's possible the salesman shot you a price that had been approved before, but circumstances had changed in between times so that price was denied this time out.

As far as financing goes, dealerships usually get a commission from the bank if they sell the financing so often they will let a car go a little lower if they get that. But when interest rates are as low as they are now it could be that the commission isn't enough to make it worth dealing with. Most of the time you're probably better off going in prepared to make a cash offer, so if you need to finance make sure you're approved ahead of time so you can close the deal on the spot and avoid what happened at dealership # 2.
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:52 AM
 
268 posts, read 816,339 times
Reputation: 185
I absolutely hate buying cars. That's why I do my research, know whats out there and selling price. And I have a wad of cash to pay for the damn thing, so I never have to see the salesman again. I absolutely hate buying cars.
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:53 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,587,039 times
Reputation: 14621
Quote:
Originally Posted by nas-gr View Post
I would like to share a few experiences and ask what do you think of these scenarios and what were the dealers thinking, and whether they were using a tactic on me.

dealership 1. They did not have a specific make/model I was looking for. After I explained my price range and the types of vehicles I 'd be interested in, the salesman told me "I just sold x vehicle about an hour ago, it was very clean, low miles etc etc....it's too bad you didn't come an hour before", another salesman confirmed that they just sold this "nice and clean" vehicle within my price range-they made it seem like such a good deal and I was unfortunate to have missed it. The salesman kept going on and on about how nice that car was and how it would have fit me perfectly ( a little suspicious to me how he would spend so much time trying to "sell me" a car that was already sold). The next day I receive a call (I let it go to voicemail) telling me "I have great news for you, the other guy's loan didn't go through and the car I told you about is now available". I went and looked at the car, didn't like it and didn't buy it. My question is, what are the chances the other guys loan truly didn't go through? Or did they have that vehicle at another location and wanted to sell it badly, and played this game to make me want to buy it?

dealership 2. Went to this dealership looking for a particular model within my price range (my price range being about 3k less than average price of that vehicle). I found one close to my price range, only that one car available for 2-3k less than other similar models at that dealership. I offered to pay that price out the door, we agreed, and I was to go back within a couple days with down payment and make the purchase. When I went back the manager asked me for 1k more than we agreed on (and shows me the kbb value to prove his new price is fair). I forgot to mention before I walked in another salesman came out, I asked him about that car (which I already knew everything about it and was going to buy it) and he told me a price which was 3k more than the asking price 2 days ago! He also told me the car just came in today (which is not true, the other salesman, who I saw 2 days ago and car was there, told me the reason this car is cheaper is because it has been sitting there for about a month).

Ofcourse I did not end up buying, but my question is: Why would the sales manager change his mind on the price we agreed on, especially if he knew I came back to purchase the car?

dealership 3. Went looking for a specific model. Only one was available within my price range. I made an offer (apprx 2k less than asking price, which came out to asking price out the door), the salesman told me we can work something out-and was quick to pretty much accept the offer. Sales manager refused my offer and wanted $900 more to close the deal.
My question is: Doesn't the salesman know the price they can sell the car for? Was the manager trying to make even more money out of the car or did the salesman not really know they were not making profit with my offer?


Since I'm still looking for a car I also wanted to ask whether it's a good idea to make a deal with the dealership and finance through them as long as they lower the price more than they would if I was to get financed somewhere else? Is this something dealers will consider? I ask because they don't seem to care where I get financed

Thanks and sorry for the long post!

The first thing I will say is that it all comes down to how the dealers are structured to do business. In a lot of places these days the salesman are only there to get a "fish on the line" and it comes down to the managers to get the deal done. In a lot of these places the salesman are encouraged to do or say anything to keep people interested. The idea is that once you are interested and get entranced with the idea of a new car, you are more willing to let the numbers slide. I hate doing business with places like this, but sometimes you don't have a choice if you want a certain car. As for your scenarios...

1. Is certainly a feasible situation as they relayed it to you. They may have been talking up the car knowing that the financing situation was shaky or just to give you the impression that they could get the kind of car you were looking for. It is not uncommon at all for loans to not go through these days as credit standards have tightened. A lot of times the loan gets approved, but the lender wants more money down and the buyer doesn't have it or isn't willing to pay it and the deal dies. I would have to believe that if they had a car they thought would be a good match sitting at another location that they would have told you about that and made arrangements to transfer it.

2. This one is frustrating as chances are you never got the entire truth out of it. Did you ever look at the history report on that car, or any of its details? Sometimes the price being $2k-$3k less is do to something like that car having a rental history and not because it has been on the lot for a month, which in real terms isn't long enough for that kind of a price drop. So, chances are you were being lied to about the reason for the price drop and both salesman were trying out a line on you.

Now, you said you had a deal worked out, but then it went up by $1k. Now there are "deals" and there are deals. The first kind is just a verbal, the second is a written and signed confirmed price. If it wasn't in writing, it wasn't actually a deal and whoever you were talking to may not have had all the numbers in front of him. The reason the price went up, could be one of two things; first, the sales manager thought he had you hooked and could slip the extra $1k in and you wouldn't fight. Second, when the sales manager actually ran the numbers on that car, he realized that he couldn't sell it at that price without taking a loss. Each car on the lot is unique and maybe that one required a new set of tires or brakes before they would sell it. The sales manager may not have realized how much he had in the car when he made the verbal deal and couldn't afford to take a loss. His using KBB was just a cover.

3. This goes back to the fact that many dealerships use their salesman to get people "on the line" and then let the sales manager land them. It also ties back to some of number 2 where each car is unique in terms of pricing and profit margin. Here's an example:

Car A and Car B are the exaxt same year, make and model, same color, some trim, same options, same mileage, same warranty, etc. On the lot these cars would sell for the same price, let's just $20k. Chances are the dealership may have even bought them for the same price, say $15k. However, Car A needed to have new tires put on for some reason. This means the dealership now has more money invested in Car A and cannot sell it for as little as they could Car B and still make a profit.

In your case, the salesman may have run 5 deals for similar cars to the one you are considering at a price in the ballpark that you had offered, so he said lets do it, knowing you were close. The sales manager when reviewing the details on that actual car realized he couldn't go that low and keep his margin, so he asked for more money.

On the financing part, the dealers do make money when you finance through them, though they will all swear they don't. I've personally had a deal fall through because I was financing myself and they couldn't beat my rate and refused to sell to me for the agreed to price with my financing and wanted an extra $1k. In general I would recommend that you go in armed with your financing. It takes one less deal off the table and leaves you strictly talking about the price of the car. If the dealer keeps pressuring you to use their financing ask them what they can do on the price if you go through them. If it never comes up, you can also ask them if they could lower the price if you finance through them. In either case, only do it if they can beat or match the rate you have or the price reduction is enough to make it worthwhile regardless. In most cases they can't "beat your rate", because they are pocketing some of that percentage as their profit.

I would also not talk "out the door" pricing. Just talk about the actual price of the car and approach each component of the deal separately. Some people think talking "out the door" price is an advantage to the customer, but if you approach each piece separately, you can often score a better deal.

The other thing you are up against is the fact that you seem to want a certain car at around $3k less than it generally is worth at retail. Not saying you can't get that deal, but you are going to need to find the right car in the right situation where the dealer wants to dump it, but isn't constrained by having too much money into it and so they can meet your price and still make a profit.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:38 AM
 
4 posts, read 8,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
You want a car for $3,000 less than what it's worth, give or take, and you wonder why you're having problems obtaining it?
Prezactly! My 2 cents. I like to buy at the price I would get if I drove it around the block and returned it. That, to me, is the actual worth of the vehicle.

I did learn about a "buy bid" which is great if you have a 1 or 2 year old low mile car and don't want to get "trade in" value or have to buy another car. However you pretty much have to sell it to the same brand dealer and have nothing owing.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,472 posts, read 17,667,280 times
Reputation: 4095
So let me get this straight...you want a certain vehicle in a certain color, certain year, certain options...and you want to get that vehicle at $3K LESS than what it's actually worth? Good luck.

Your best option is to either loosen your criteria (wouldn't be my choice- you're stuck with this car for a while, get what you want) or just pay the extra $900 to get the vehicle you want. Yes dealerships can be a pain but you have to realize that a few hundred dollars in the long run isn't going to make a huge difference if you're spending tens of thousands on a new vehicle.

What exactly are you looking for anyway?
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Ontario, NY
3,513 posts, read 7,764,568 times
Reputation: 4266
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
On the financing part, the dealers do make money when you finance through them, though they will all swear they don't. I've personally had a deal fall through because I was financing myself and they couldn't beat my rate and refused to sell to me for the agreed to price with my financing and wanted an extra $1k. In general I would recommend that you go in armed with your financing. It takes one less deal off the table and leaves you strictly talking about the price of the car. If the dealer keeps pressuring you to use their financing ask them what they can do on the price if you go through them. If it never comes up, you can also ask them if they could lower the price if you finance through them. In either case, only do it if they can beat or match the rate you have or the price reduction is enough to make it worthwhile regardless. In most cases they can't "beat your rate", because they are pocketing some of that percentage as their profit.
I've always wondered about the financing part. I know they say you should have a loan arrangement already worked out at the bank, but when you see those 0.9% financing offers, I don't see how you can do better with a bank. I guess if you get all starry eyed that you MUST have this car, I guess they could try to charge you a higher interest rate than you could have gotten from a bank. As for charging a higher price, always say your paying cash, get the price set first before discussing financing. Weather you have a pocketful of cash or financing it, your still paying with cash in the end.

Last car I financed at a dealership, the sales guy told me he hasn't seen a credit rating that good in 6 months. I had no trouble financing the car through Honda Financial at 6%, at that time it was a good interest rate, even if you financed with a bank. I financed the car for 3 years and paid if off in less than 2.

I think your OK financing through the dealer, just know the interest rate the banks are offering and be prepared to walk away to they try to charge you a higher interest rate.
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