Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Anyone have a Kia or Hyundai Hybrid? How do you like it? I saw a Kia advertised on line for less than 23,000. I think gas prices are heading up this summer so I am thinking about a Hybrid. Anyway, I like these two because they are cheaper than the Camry and bigger than a Prius.
Anyone by a Fusion Hybrid? Are they about the same price? How do you like it.
Fusion is a much better car. No question.. The American cars are still way better then anything from Korea.. We have been building cars for 75 years longer..
As you can see, there is a little bit of variability there in price and MPG performance. The Hyundai solution is more geared to highway mileage and not city, so the choice of which is better may ultimately be determined by the kind of driving you will do. Overall, the Camry and Fusion tend to return the best overall MPG of the options.
A lot of the pricing variability has to do with the basic trim levels. The Fusion Hybrid has a lot of standard equipment included, generally similar to a Fusion Limited trim. The others offer a more basic level of equipment that can then be optioned up. Totally decked out, the Optima is the most affordable.
There are also some differences in trunk capacities and seating arrangements, so read up on the specs of each to see which offers the best. In general, Hyundai sacrifices trunk space for passenger space, while the Camry and Fusion have a better blend with the Camry offering more rear seat room then the Fusion, but the Fusion having more driver space.
I would suggest that you check out the Prius is you are that set on a hybrid. It really isn't as small as people think and is easily the best in terms of MPG and price. You may find on an actual test drive that it is well suited to your needs.
On the general topic of hybrids though, what is your real goal? Is it about getting the best MPG, period, or is it about the most economical way of getting from A to B? Look at the quoted MPG numbers, read up on their real world performance and you will probably find that the mainstream 4 cylinder non-hybrid versions of each of those cars get close to the same MPG and easily cost thousands less to buy. Overall, gas needs to be much higher then it is now for hybrids to really payoff in the overall economic sense.
As you can see, there is a little bit of variability there in price and MPG performance. The Hyundai solution is more geared to highway mileage and not city, so the choice of which is better may ultimately be determined by the kind of driving you will do. Overall, the Camry and Fusion tend to return the best overall MPG of the options.
A lot of the pricing variability has to do with the basic trim levels. The Fusion Hybrid has a lot of standard equipment included, generally similar to a Fusion Limited trim. The others offer a more basic level of equipment that can then be optioned up. Totally decked out, the Optima is the most affordable.
There are also some differences in trunk capacities and seating arrangements, so read up on the specs of each to see which offers the best. In general, Hyundai sacrifices trunk space for passenger space, while the Camry and Fusion have a better blend with the Camry offering more rear seat room then the Fusion, but the Fusion having more driver space.
I would suggest that you check out the Prius is you are that set on a hybrid. It really isn't as small as people think and is easily the best in terms of MPG and price. You may find on an actual test drive that it is well suited to your needs.
On the general topic of hybrids though, what is your real goal? Is it about getting the best MPG, period, or is it about the most economical way of getting from A to B? Look at the quoted MPG numbers, read up on their real world performance and you will probably find that the mainstream 4 cylinder non-hybrid versions of each of those cars get close to the same MPG and easily cost thousands less to buy. Overall, gas needs to be much higher then it is now for hybrids to really payoff in the overall economic sense.
Really just looking for a cheap car that is good with gas. The back seat is a big deal for me. So, I thought the Optima would be the best bet. I like it because it is cheap, one dealer advertised one for 22 something. I dont' think I can get a Camry Hybrid for that. To me 3000 grand is a big difference. I know I should compare the total cost of ownership but I am really just interested in how much I spend on gas.
Really just looking for a cheap car that is good with gas. The back seat is a big deal for me. So, I thought the Optima would be the best bet. I like it because it is cheap, one dealer advertised one for 22 something. I dont' think I can get a Camry Hybrid for that. To me 3000 grand is a big difference. I know I should compare the total cost of ownership but I am really just interested in how much I spend on gas.
If $3,000 is a big difference in price, then you should be more concerned with the total cost of ownership then just the gas prices.
Just looking at the Optima...
Model...........MSRP.........Combined MPG.......Highway MPG
Base 2.4L......$19,500............28................... ....35
Hybrid...........$25,700............37............ ...........40
Let's assume you drive 15,000 miles a year and gas costs $4.50 a gallon and we use the combined MPG. Basically the most hybrid slanted comparo we can make.
Model..........Per Year Fuel Cost............5 Year Fuel Cost
Base 2.4L.........$2,410.........................$12,05 3
Hybrid..............$1,824........................ .$9,121
Difference.........$586........................... $2,931
Kia is currently giving $1,900 on 2011 Optima Hybrids. They are also giving back $1,000 on regular 2011 or 2012 Optimas.
So, here is what the cars cost with the available rebates:
Base 2.4L = $18,500
Hybrid = $23,800
Difference = $5,300
Now, let's assume we are financing that car at standard rates. In general you are looking at about $20 per thousand financed over 60 months. So, let's look at our monthly payments, assuming you put down tax/title/tags.
Base 2.4L payment = $370
Hybrid payment = $476
Difference = $106 per month.
Now, our fuel cost was $586 more per year for the base 2.4L under our assumptions. That would work out to $48.83 per month.
Bottom line...the Hybrid Optima will cost you $57.17 MORE to own and operate on a monthly basis then the base 2.4L Optima will. Gas would need to be pushing ~$9.00 a gallon before the Optima hybrid would make total financial sense compared to the base model. It's obvious you want a low total cost of ownership if you are dickering over $3,000 as being "big to you". Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.
If overall $$ is your main concern you might want to reconsider a prius.. with the hatch shape they are actually much more real world roomy than the less the ideally packaged optima, although it too, still a good car. Much better real world mileage in the prius.. I regularly, get 44-48mpg of the rated combined of 50mpg for a prius.. previous generation camry hybrid I would get about 33-36mpg, the newest generation, closer to 38-39mog, and never better than 33 in a fusion hybrid in real world mileage. Cant speak to real world mileage for the optima hybrid, as I havent driven one more than a few blocks, but Id imagine Id get just a lil under its epa rating..
And re cost of ownership.. resale value is used for true cost of ownership values.. dont know how they are for kias in general, easy enough to find though... But prius' certainly hold value well, toyotas lead in most classes anyway, but a hybrid camry certainly holds more resale % than a comparable 4cyl. The above comparison is model specific and not necersarrily accurate in an overall gas vs. hyrid comparison overall.
If overall $$ is your main concern you might want to reconsider a prius.. with the hatch shape they are actually much more real world roomy than the less the ideally packaged optima, although it too, still a good car.
I agree with this, as I said in my first post. I have a lot of seat time in the Prius and it is a much roomier car then people think. I'm 6'4" and have no issue driving it and have put my wife and all three kids in one (2 of whom are in car seats) and had no problems whatsoever. Part of what helps the Prius in that regard is that it has a tall greenhouse and since it was purposefully designed as a hybrid, it isn't as "compromised" as the sedans in terms of storage space.
Quote:
Much better real world mileage in the prius.. I regularly, get 44-48mpg of the rated combined of 50mpg for a prius.. previous generation camry hybrid I would get about 33-36mpg, the newest generation, closer to 38-39mog, and never better than 33 in a fusion hybrid in real world mileage. Cant speak to real world mileage for the optima hybrid, as I havent driven one more than a few blocks, but Id imagine Id get just a lil under its epa rating..
Your MPG figures sound pretty spot on as far as what people are getting. The Optima has been cited in many places as getting around 35 combined in real world driving. A lot of the decision process comes down to where you are going to be doing your driving. The Optima setup does pretty well on the highway, while the Camry and Fusion are more city oriented. None of them, of course, can get near what the Prius does in either situation.
Quote:
And re cost of ownership.. resale value is used for true cost of ownership values.. dont know how they are for kias in general, easy enough to find though... But prius' certainly hold value well, toyotas lead in most classes anyway, but a hybrid camry certainly holds more resale % than a comparable 4cyl. The above comparison is model specific and not necersarrily accurate in an overall gas vs. hyrid comparison overall.
I didn't include depreciation in the numbers, which is of course the correct method, because the OP was more oriented on monthly cost of ownership. Deprectiation is certainly a real cost, but it isn't realized until you get rid of the car. FWIW, the 5-year depreciation is around $15k on the base Optima and around $13k on the hybrid.
While the comparison isn't necessarily accurate overall in terms of hybrid vs. non-hybrid, it is easy enough to do the same for any group of vehicles. A lot of it comes down to what style of driving you are going to do. There is a bevy of compact sedans that are now pushing upper 30's in real world MPG on the highway and cost $5k-$7k less then a base Prius when similarly equipped. Overall these cars end up in a combined real world mileage that is around 12 less then what a Prius achieves. At that point, fuel simply doesn't cost enough to offset the added cost of the hybrid, even when we factor in depreciation as many of those compacts also enjoy high resale value. Fleets I've run the numbers for end up finding a "Prius payoff" at around $6.50 per gallon versus a regular compact car. Of course, that is not accounting for the fact that the Prius is bigger and more versatile then most of the cars it would be compared to.
The whole point being, not to knock hybrids, I happen to like them from a technology perspective, but to consider all of the factors involved and not just fixate on MPG. Most people who choose to buy a new car and just want to get from A to B as cheaply as possible are better served by non-hybrids.
I agree with this, as I said in my first post. I have a lot of seat time in the Prius and it is a much roomier car then people think. I'm 6'4" and have no issue driving it and have put my wife and all three kids in one (2 of whom are in car seats) and had no problems whatsoever. Part of what helps the Prius in that regard is that it has a tall greenhouse and since it was purposefully designed as a hybrid, it isn't as "compromised" as the sedans in terms of storage space.
Your MPG figures sound pretty spot on as far as what people are getting. The Optima has been cited in many places as getting around 35 combined in real world driving. A lot of the decision process comes down to where you are going to be doing your driving. The Optima setup does pretty well on the highway, while the Camry and Fusion are more city oriented. None of them, of course, can get near what the Prius does in either situation.
I didn't include depreciation in the numbers, which is of course the correct method, because the OP was more oriented on monthly cost of ownership. Deprectiation is certainly a real cost, but it isn't realized until you get rid of the car. FWIW, the 5-year depreciation is around $15k on the base Optima and around $13k on the hybrid.
While the comparison isn't necessarily accurate overall in terms of hybrid vs. non-hybrid, it is easy enough to do the same for any group of vehicles. A lot of it comes down to what style of driving you are going to do. There is a bevy of compact sedans that are now pushing upper 30's in real world MPG on the highway and cost $5k-$7k less then a base Prius when similarly equipped. Overall these cars end up in a combined real world mileage that is around 12 less then what a Prius achieves. At that point, fuel simply doesn't cost enough to offset the added cost of the hybrid, even when we factor in depreciation as many of those compacts also enjoy high resale value. Fleets I've run the numbers for end up finding a "Prius payoff" at around $6.50 per gallon versus a regular compact car. Of course, that is not accounting for the fact that the Prius is bigger and more versatile then most of the cars it would be compared to.
The whole point being, not to knock hybrids, I happen to like them from a technology perspective, but to consider all of the factors involved and not just fixate on MPG. Most people who choose to buy a new car and just want to get from A to B as cheaply as possible are better served by non-hybrids.
+1 on all of it.. for me it really comes down to how many miles you drive, and how much fuel you'lk be buying to make fiscal sense.. for me and many others the hybrid option would surely pay for itself much more quickly than a 15k miles a year "average" driver.. I sometime do 15k miles in MONTH.. average 50-70k a year... Mostly in company cars though.. I dont think I even know anyone that does less than 20k a year... of course the other thing is to DRIVE all the models you're thinking about. Some people just like different feels, even if they cant nail it down to a tangible.
I aslo agree with the previous post of NJGOAT, with one caveat.
One key reason why imports enjoy much better resale value is because American automakers still dump a ton of their cars into rental fleets, which tends to demolish the resale value as opposed to your typical Honda or Toyota product, as numerous stories from an assortment of media outlets have pointed out for years.
There's a ton of information and newsletters available for free at Automotive News, the website of Automotive News, arguably the bible of the industry.
Hybrids remain too expensive to make sense for a lot of people, and even with regular gas now up to $4.00/gallon here in LA and headed to that number and beyond nationwide, the price difference still doesn't 'pncil out' for many of us.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
