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I'm with sunsprit - a good way to make sure that the recent grad won't have a lot of extra money for a long time to come is to put them in a car loan, especially since they are going to take a huge hit in the value of the car as soon as they drive it off the lot.
Considering the mark-up on a new vehicle, I think you're shortchanging yourself by not considering a quality used vehicle. You can save a lot of money in acquisition, ownership, taxes, licensing, insurance ....
There's good guideline advice about which cars are good "bets" for a good used car published in Consumer Reports annual auto issue. You could consider used cars that are still under manufacturer's warranty if you need that piece of mind ....
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Originally Posted by sean98125
I'm with sunsprit - a good way to make sure that the recent grad won't have a lot of extra money for a long time to come is to put them in a car loan, especially since they are going to take a huge hit in the value of the car as soon as they drive it off the lot.
In most cases, I would agree with both of you. However, I would disagree when it comes to the Honda Civic. The Civic holds its value so well the first couple of years that there is not much upside to buying a used one.
If the grad doesn't have a lot of money, then the upside to buying a used one is on her monthly budget. She can get a solid, reliable used Civic for $10,000 less than she can get a new one and drive it until she gets some of her college debt cleared.
If the grad doesn't have a lot of money, then the upside to buying a used one is on her monthly budget. She can get a solid, reliable used Civic for $10,000 less than she can get a new one and drive it until she gets some of her college debt cleared.
It takes quite a while for a Civic to depreciate $10k. Some people don't want to buy cars (even Hondas) with 150k+ miles and 6-10 years worth of use behind them.
I don't argue that a reliable Civic can be found in that price range, but my previous comment was specifically talking about lightly used Civics. The reason that I even mentioned it was because sunsprit mentioned lightly used vehicles that were still under factory warranty. You won't find a used Civic under factory warranty for $10k less than a new one.
8 snake ... all you've done is confirm that a Honda Civic may not be a good economic choice for this prospective buyer.
There's a heck of a lot of other quality transportation cars in the marketplace that will do a good job at more reasonable cost. We're talking dependable and reliable transportation ... not vanity cars for a first time buyer with a limited budget for purchase and ... I suspect ... not a lot of excess monthly cash flow for payments, insurance, license, or taxes.
The other end of the transportation segment has a lot of very good buys in it. If this buyer would consider something like a 5-8 year old mid-line domestic car ... something on the order of a Buick with the V-6, or a Ford Taurus ... with moderate miles on the odo; there are lots of these cars available for a couple thousand dollars. These were pretty decent cars, inexpensive to maintain, cheap to insure, and the GM V-6 could turn fuel mileage in the high 20's.
I know of several of these cars that sold in our area ... strictly because the owners were tired of the 'ol car with the door dings and rock chips on the hood, and wanted something new ... for under $2,000. All were very low mileage, under 100K miles ... and fit for a lot more service. When you're talking rock bottom transportation costs, nothing will beat these cars. You can drive them on the cheap for years ... and when they start to become unreliable or expensive to fix, tow them to the boneyard and still have spent substantially less money than that new Honda Accord or Civic or ?
Even with the disparity in fuel economy, the bigger domestic will still have cost less per mile to operate. It's unfortunate that the OP's car buying expertise will probably keep her out of this market segment, because it really accomplishes best what she wants to do ... low cost transportation for awhile.
8 snake ... all you've done is confirm that a Honda Civic may not be a good economic choice for this prospective buyer.
There's a heck of a lot of other quality transportation cars in the marketplace that will do a good job at more reasonable cost. We're talking dependable and reliable transportation ... not vanity cars for a first time buyer with a limited budget for purchase and ... I suspect ... not a lot of excess monthly cash flow for payments, insurance, license, or taxes.
The other end of the transportation segment has a lot of very good buys in it. If this buyer would consider something like a 5-8 year old mid-line domestic car ... something on the order of a Buick with the V-6, or a Ford Taurus ... with moderate miles on the odo; there are lots of these cars available for a couple thousand dollars. These were pretty decent cars, inexpensive to maintain, cheap to insure, and the GM V-6 could turn fuel mileage in the high 20's.
I know of several of these cars that sold in our area ... strictly because the owners were tired of the 'ol car with the door dings and rock chips on the hood, and wanted something new ... for under $2,000. All were very low mileage, under 100K miles ... and fit for a lot more service. When you're talking rock bottom transportation costs, nothing will beat these cars. You can drive them on the cheap for years ... and when they start to become unreliable or expensive to fix, tow them to the boneyard and still have spent substantially less money than that new Honda Accord or Civic or ?
Even with the disparity in fuel economy, the bigger domestic will still have cost less per mile to operate. It's unfortunate that the OP's car buying expertise will probably keep her out of this market segment, because it really accomplishes best what she wants to do ... low cost transportation for awhile.
Working in the repair field; about the only smaller Detroit Three car below, say, 2000 that I trust is a GM model with the 'Buick' 3800 V6. The 3.1L V6's are basically trash.
8 snake ... all you've done is confirm that a Honda Civic may not be a good economic choice for this prospective buyer.
There's a heck of a lot of other quality transportation cars in the marketplace that will do a good job at more reasonable cost. We're talking dependable and reliable transportation ... not vanity cars for a first time buyer with a limited budget for purchase and ... I suspect ... not a lot of excess monthly cash flow for payments, insurance, license, or taxes.
You act like I advised her to buy an Aston Martin?? I have heard the Honda Civic called a lot of things, but a poor economic choice has never been one of them until today. I've also never heard the Civic called a vanity car. A Murcielago? Sure. A 911? Absolutely. A Civic? Nope.
First, the OP specifically stated that a used car was NOT an option. Obviously we're going to have to side-step this requirement for the sake of continued debate, but it was worth mentioning.
You mentioned dependable and reliable. The Civic has both of the attributes in spades. The vehicles that you have suggested might do well, or they might not. It is a gamble.
You mentioned the prospective buyer's limited monthy cashflow. A new Civic will have very predictable monthly expenses (payment, insurance, gas and maintenance). Any unforseen hiccups will be covered by warranty, but they are unlikely. Any major repair that popped up on an older car could sink her quickly. She'd be looking at a rental while her car was in the shop, plus a huge repair bill that her budget couldn't likely handle.
A Civic also holds its value better than almost any other car on the road. The buyer is not going to take a bath on depreciation buying one of these cars.
Finally, a Civic is going to get significantly better fuel economy than the cars that you have suggested.
The Civic is a great choice for this person's situation.
8Snake ... if we're going to have a rational discussion here on the thread for the OP's benefit and be responsive to their situation, the first thing you can do is NOT put words in my mouth for your purposes. Thank you very much.
As a former (back when I was in my "Brit" phase) early DB-series Aston owner, I wouldn't wish one of these vanity piles on anbody. Let alone an AC Bristol, or a Jag sedan or roadster, a Rolls, a Bentley, a Riley, or a later TVR or Jensen. All required a lot more maintenance and adjusting and fiddling than any reasonable person would put into a transportation car. All of the people I know who wanted to drive one of these beasts on a daily fairweather basis had to own at least three .... to have a high probability of one being fully drivable on a given day. The charm wore off real quickly when one was always figuring out a route homeward with the best chances of being near telephone and a friendly (and inexpensive) tow service flatbed. Impressive to look at, rolling works of art ... but not good transportation.
Anyway ... I have no issue with the Honda Civic build quality, perceived value in the marketplace, fuel economy, or any other aspect of this car that you seem to favor. But a new 2008 bottom of the line car is a $15,600 ... without A/C or a decent audio system. The car's pretty much a "stripper" at that price point. Want a nicely equipped one? Closer to $20,000.00, which is a lot of dough for a newby into the working world with a college loan to pay off. Don't forget sales taxes, licensing, insurance, etc., are based upon the purchase price.
However, when I look at the entry level cars in the marketplace today ... there's a whole bunch that can be had for substantially less money and deliver more value and utility while having comparable operating costs with lower insurance cost, lower license costs, etc. Try Toyota Corolla's, Nissan Sentra's, Kia's entry level cars, and ... (gasp)even a Dodge Neon. I've rented and driven extensively all of these cars at destinations around the country, all drove fairly well for a basic transport car, all had excellent A/C and heaters, decent seats, good lighting and ergonomics for controls ... and a fairly good level of fit and finish materials. At substantially less up-front cost than a Civic.
While one might want to think that the Civic 5-10 years down the road might have a higher % retained value in the marketplace than these other entry level (and there's others, too) car ... that's not the prime consideration for the OP as posted. The problem is reliable and durable transportation at lowest possible cost NOW. Many new cars will serve that function for overall lower costs per mile during a realistic period of ownership than the Civic, and be able to be driven well over 100,000 miles, too. That's a lot of years of driving at low cost ... enough time for our newby to get established and ahead on her financial situation.
8Snake ... if we're going to have a rational discussion here on the thread for the OP's benefit and be responsive to their situation, the first thing you can do is NOT put words in my mouth for your purposes. Thank you very much.
Care to point out the words that I put in your mouth?
I have no problem having a rational discussion and even a debate. In fact, I rather enjoy both.
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