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Statistics are just that - statistics. Like those from our last election, the only thing that matters is what happens, not what the statistics say. Anecdotally, within my sphere of knowledge via friends and a club, I know of at least 25 Land Cruisers with over 300k miles on them. I ride in Prius taxis all the time with 800k-1m miles on them (pretty much any taxi in Seattle or SF). All 3 of the guys I know that have Lexus LSs have well over 200k and one has well over 300k. And they don't sell them because they are reliable.
Tells me all I need to know.
Everything you've said is an attempt to project your personal experience onto the meta-group.
A statistic with a sample size of one (you) or even 25 (still an extremely small sample) is dubious support when applied to a generalized claim.
Credible reliability sites (CR, TrueDelta) never publish such without at least a sample size disclaimer warning.
Everything you've said is an attempt to project your personal experience onto the meta-group.
A statistic with a sample size of one (you) or even 25 (still an extremely small sample) is dubious support when applied to a generalized claim.
Credible reliability sites (CR, TrueDelta) never publish such without at least a sample size disclaimer warning.
Actually, Stonepa is right about your 180k mile chart and theory/stats. Industry average fro cars is 12k miles per year. How long will it take for cars to get to 180k miles at that rate? That puts newer cars and weekend cars (like Porsches) at a distinct disadvantage as they haven't had time to rack up those sorts of miles. It also puts trucks and basic commuters right in the thick of things as they WILL rack up the miles. It's not anecdotal, it's basic math. If you do less than 7000 miles a year, or have been around less than 15 years, you will not have that many miles showing to fit the survey.
In your graphic, you have MINI, Porsche, Smart and Fiat at 0. We know there are Porsches out there with more than 180k on them. And the rest haven't been around long enough to rack up the miles (especially Smarts that are primarily city cars, so see way less than the industry average annual miles put on them, and have only been around a few years).
Actually, Stonepa is right about your 180k mile chart and theory/stats. Industry average fro cars is 12k miles per year. How long will it take for cars to get to 180k miles at that rate? That puts newer cars and weekend cars (like Porsches) at a distinct disadvantage as they haven't had time to rack up those sorts of miles. It also puts trucks and basic commuters right in the thick of things as they WILL rack up the miles. It's not anecdotal, it's basic math. If you do less than 7000 miles a year, or have been around less than 15 years, you will not have that many miles showing to fit the survey.
In your graphic, you have MINI, Porsche, Smart and Fiat at 0. We know there are Porsches out there with more than 180k on them. And the rest haven't been around long enough to rack up the miles (especially Smarts that are primarily city cars, so see way less than the industry average annual miles put on them, and have only been around a few years).
Your logic works for several examples (Mini, Smart, Fiat) and you make a good point with them.
It all falls apart for him because the cars he's referring aren't recently created, aren't city and aren't exotic. They're regular cars.
The Toyota trucks have been around for decades. So has Lexus.
Yet they're only at 22% making 180K despite having plenty of time.
There is no reason for them not to make it other than they just didn't.
It's not just Toyota. There isn't a single full line automaker that can make a legitimate claim of such longevity.
There are surely Porsches with high mileage but there are also a lot of Porsches that aren't driven much.
Porsche also has one of the highest percentages of all of its cars still on the road.
They are not daily driver cars like all of the Toyota examples. Zero is likely just rounding.
Also worth noting that all miles are not equal. Someone could get long, good service with a car in the city, and not rack up a lot of miles. City driving is hard on a car all around.
My old Scirocco, I have driven more than 250K since I got it in about 2002. Lord only knows how many miles are on the body - as if that makes any difference. But I keep up with maintenance, good oil, good filters, maintain sharp tune so it's not misfiring. So many people won't spend any time or money on an old high-mile car.
Maintenance and conditions of service also matter a lot. A lot of people won't do their own maintenance and once a car gets good and old, they won't pay a shop either. So, self-fulfilling prophecy - they think the car is on it's last legs, and by skipping maintenance they make that so.
Then you have the rust belt, where a car rusts away in about 10 years regardless of miles.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
Also worth noting that all miles are not equal. Someone could get long, good service with a car in the city, and not rack up a lot of miles. City driving is hard on a car all around.
My old Scirocco, I have driven more than 250K since I got it in about 2002. Lord only knows how many miles are on the body - as if that makes any difference. ....
Then you have the rust belt, where a car rusts away in about 10 years regardless of miles.
The local 'Bear Alignment Shop' was impressed that my 'Stealthrabbit' w/ 330,000 on the clock needed no steering components for it's last Alignment. (clock has been broken for over 20 yrs). My 70,000 mile 10 yr old Chrysler needed ball jts and 4 tie rod ends.
They still have those?
When I was in college, I worked as a 3rd shift security guard at Bear Manufacturing. That was one spooky place.
One night it caught on fire.
Fortunately it had just started so I unloaded several fire extinguishers on it and put it out.
All this excitement happened in the late 1970's. The factory closed a few years later.
What do you think? I'm glad that my Toyota Camry (200k) is on the list, although towards the bottom. When that one gives up the ghost, I might go for a Honda Accord or a Lexus (if my income increases enough by then!). I'll pick a lightly used car with 10-20k and hope I can drive it at least 280,000 more!
The local 'Bear Alignment Shop' was impressed that my 'Stealthrabbit' w/ 330,000 on the clock needed no steering components for it's last Alignment. (clock has been broken for over 20 yrs). My 70,000 mile 10 yr old Chrysler needed ball jts and 4 tie rod ends.
I was impressed, my VW Jetta Wagon never had an alignment issue up front. It did get aligned twice, but only due to either wheel bearings or clutch work.
Now the stupid rear beam axle bent over time, leading to 0.5 degree toe-in, and was one of the reasons I got rid of the car. Had to rotate every 3k or the tires would feather. I figured, between two fenders, a hatch, new injectors (stock PD injectors, their time had to be about due), windshield... Love the car but couldn't see dropping the money at the time (and I wasn't willing to learn how to work on the PD, and no long willing to drive to someone who could). Did hit 314k though.
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