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would depend on individual state laws, but so far as I'm aware he could withhold the car until payment was received for services rendered..
As stated, police cannot get involved in a civil matter, so the OP would either require to pay the bill, or take the mechanic to court
It does all depend on state laws. I'm not terribly familiar with the ones in Arizona, but most states have very clear laws that a mechanic cannot hold a vehicle in lieu of payment for what is considered unauthorized work. Contacting the police is a valid action to recover the car in a "he said, she said" situation, because unless the mechanic can prove that he is only charging for authorized work then he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. I think the OP's daughter could get the car recovered with police assistance. From there, the mechanic could file a lien against the car, or sue the OP's daughter in civil court. His ability to hold the car on a basis of what the OP claims were unauthorized repairs is very shaky.
If the mechanic did pursue further action or the police are not able to help then the OP's daughter needs to pursue it in a civil action with a claim of "conversion" aka trover, which is a civil version of theft. Even if the property was lawfully and willingly given to the mechanic in the first place, he needs to return it upon demand unless he can make a clear case that he wasn't paid for authorized work.
What un-needed parts were replaced? How much did this add to the bill?
That's what I'd like to know. If it's less than a hundred bucks it's hardly worth jumping through the hoops to get restitution. Just pay the bill and consider it a lesson learned.
It does all depend on state laws. I'm not terribly familiar with the ones in Arizona, but most states have very clear laws that a mechanic cannot hold a vehicle in lieu of payment for what is considered unauthorized work. Contacting the police is a valid action to recover the car in a "he said, she said" situation, because unless the mechanic can prove that he is only charging for authorized work then he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. I think the OP's daughter could get the car recovered with police assistance. From there, the mechanic could file a lien against the car, or sue the OP's daughter in civil court. His ability to hold the car on a basis of what the OP claims were unauthorized repairs is very shaky.
If the mechanic did pursue further action or the police are not able to help then the OP's daughter needs to pursue it in a civil action with a claim of "conversion" aka trover, which is a civil version of theft. Even if the property was lawfully and willingly given to the mechanic in the first place, he needs to return it upon demand unless he can make a clear case that he wasn't paid for authorized work.
Again, the police WILL NOT respond to a civil matter.! It simply will not happen. The only recourse is civil action......
No crime, no police..
That's what I'd like to know. If it's less than a hundred bucks it's hardly worth jumping through the hoops to get restitution. Just pay the bill and consider it a lesson learned.
OP states the car needs to be towed from the shop, that would imply it isn't finished, and doesn't run....
Again, the police WILL NOT respond to a civil matter.! It simply will not happen. The only recourse is civil action......
No crime, no police..
Funny, because we routinely contact the police when shops attempt to hold vehicles hostage for unauthorized work. Never had the police tell us, "this is just a civil matter" and not respond. I'm not 100% familiar with Arizona, but it is illegal in most states for a mechanic to hold a vehicle in lieu of payment for unauthorized repairs and it is defintiely a police matter. The burden of proof on the repair being authorized or not rests on the mechanic/shop to meet the law as laid out by the state.
OP states the car needs to be towed from the shop, that would imply it isn't finished, and doesn't run....
No, she said if she had the mechanic remove the redundant parts he installed and give them back the old parts she would have to have it towed. There's nothing in the post to indicate that the car isn't currently in operating condition.
"It does all depend on state laws. I'm not terribly familiar with the ones in Arizona, but most states have very clear laws that a mechanic cannot hold a vehicle in lieu of payment for what is considered unauthorized work. Contacting the police is a valid action to recover the car in a "he said, she said" situation, because unless the mechanic can prove that he is only charging for authorized work then he really doesn't have a leg to stand on."
Your unfamiliarity with state laws out here is where you are coming up with conflicted information. Maybe where you are at state criminal laws get involved with this, but ....
Out here, you don't need to be a "licensed" shop in any way to perform this work. Nor do you need to have business liability or garage keeper's insurance, nor ... if operating in a unregulated area without zoning or covenant restrictions ... even a business location license.
Even the states around here that require a signed authorization for a quoted repair project waive that requirement for a vehicle that is towed into the shop. It's only good business practice to keep your customer informed and seek authorization for the work you do in this circumstance, but the mechanic here may have been under the impression that he had the authorization to perform the repairs needed to get the car into running condition at the time the customer had the car towed in. Again, it's a "he said, she said" situation as to the specifics or lack of them at the time the services were engaged. Proof that the car was willingly delivered to the mechanic ...
The OP admits that the car was towed into the shop, admits that the car was expected to be returned in running condition after the repairs to be performed by this mechanic. The only issue that is outstanding is how much was the scope of this work and the cost.
If the OP or daughter can't work this out to a satisfactory conclusion, then the only recourse for them is to seek relief in a small claims court. The mechanic was entrusted with the car, with the project, and with the expectation of payment for his services. The details to be determined appear to be how much the mechanic may have done that was a re-do of the work performed prior to bringing the car to him that was in excess of what the OP now asserts were more than the car owner wanted to pay for the work.
All of that is in the hands of the civil system. None of that activity was a criminal act, and none of it will warrant an eyeblink from the police or sherrif's dept. The mechanic is well able to assert his mechanic's lien on the vehicle; indeed, if he is stuck with the unpaid vehicle repairs and storage for awhile, he can legally file for adverse possession and hold a sale to recover his costs to satisfy his mechanic's lien and storage costs (up to the daily limit set by AZ statute). All perfectly legal activity and not unusual in the automotive repair trade.
OP, your options now are to pay the mechanic for the services rendered, reach some sort of mutually agreeable settlement, or to allow him to retain the car while you pursue relief in the small claims court where a judge will have to determine what was the nature of the verbal contract for services. There's still nothing here to suggest that the mechanic wasn't entitled to payment for his services.
It does all depend on state laws. I'm not terribly familiar with the ones in Arizona, but most states have very clear laws that a mechanic cannot hold a vehicle in lieu of payment for what is considered unauthorized work. Contacting the police is a valid action to recover the car in a "he said, she said" situation, because unless the mechanic can prove that he is only charging for authorized work then he really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Your unfamiliarity with state laws out here is where you are coming up with conflicted information.
Out here, you don't need to be a "licensed" shop in any way to perform this work. Nor do you need to have business liability or garage keeper's insurance, nor ... if operating in a unregulated area without zoning or covenant restrictions ... even a business location license.
Even the states around here that require a signed authorization for a quoted repair project waive that requirement for a vehicle that is towed into the shop. It's only good business practice to keep your customer informed and seek authorization for the work you do in this circumstance, but the mechanic here may have been under the impression that he had the authorization to perform the repairs needed to get the car into running condition at the time the customer had the car towed in. Again, it's a "he said, she said" situation as to the specifics or lack of them at the time the services were engaged.
The OP admits that the car was towed into the shop, admits that the car was expected to be returned in running condition after the repairs to be performed by this mechanic. The only issue that is outstanding is how much this work was supposed to cost.
If the OP or daughter can't work this out to a satisfactory conclusion, then the only recourse for them is to seek relief in a small claims court. The mechanic was entrusted with the car, with the project, and with the expectation of payment for his services. The details to be determined appear to be how much the mechanic may have done that was a re-do of the work performed prior to bringing the car to him that was in excess of what the OP now asserts were more than the car owner wanted to pay for the work.
All of that is in the hands of the civil system. None of that activity was a criminal act, and none of it will warrant an eyeblink from the police or sherrif's dept. The mechanic is well able to assert his mechanic's lien on the vehicle; indeed, if he is stuck with the unpaid vehicle repairs and storage for awhile, he can legally file for adverse possession and hold a sale to recover his costs to satisfy his mechanic's lien. All perfectly legal activity and not unusual in the automotive repair trade.
Well then I'm learning something new. Arizona seriously has no laws requiring official estimates and authorization before doing work or exceeding an agreed upon repair? If I bring my car into a shop and tell them to replace the front pads and rotors and then they turn around and replace both front calipers without authorization claiming they were siezed, they can just charge me for that repair and hold my car hostage until I pay them or sue them in civil court?
I can see where you're coming from, but I think it would depend on the expectation of work.
If the OP's car was not running, and was taken to this guy and he was told "get it running", with no limitations, this would be the verbal contract, and he would do the work he deemed necessary.
If you tell them you want the rotors and pads changed out, this is the verbal contract, and to do more they would require to ask your permission.
You would only be bound to pay for the repairs you expected.
"please fix it, I need my car" is a little more vague and has more wiggle room than "change rotors and pads"
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT
Well then I'm learning something new. Arizona seriously has no laws requiring official estimates and authorization before doing work or exceeding an agreed upon repair? If I bring my car into a shop and tell them to replace the front pads and rotors and then they turn around and replace both front calipers without authorization claiming they were siezed, they can just charge me for that repair and hold my car hostage until I pay them or sue them in civil court?
I am slightly curious about why the guy changed out parts which were already changed, unless they were wrongly fitted, or faulty.
I'd dearly love to hear his side of the story.
I've ran a small garage, so I know how customers can be when they get a big bill, but I also have seen other mechanics rip folks off.
I'd strongly suggest that the OP receive legal advice before trying to proceed here, I do understand your upset, but don't make an awkward situation worse by doing the wrong thing
Well then I'm learning something new. Arizona seriously has no laws requiring official estimates and authorization before doing work or exceeding an agreed upon repair? If I bring my car into a shop and tell them to replace the front pads and rotors and then they turn around and replace both front calipers without authorization claiming they were siezed, they can just charge me for that repair and hold my car hostage until I pay them or sue them in civil court?
There are statutes for an estimate and authorization for work to be done if a car is driven in to a shop, with a limit of not to exceed a 110% over that estimate without getting further authorization if hidden problems or additional work is needed to complete the repair. How stringently these statutes are followed varies greatly from shop to shop depending upon their clientele and if a business license is required where they are operating.
In the example you cited for brakes, I would not have proceeded with the additional work without your authorization after an approved repair quote; if you had declined to do the needed work, I'd have reassembled your car for a modest cost and let you take it somewhere else without any representation that I'd performed a brake repair on your car. If you refused to pay me for my professional services rendered, then yes, I would hold your car for my mechanic's lien until you paid up, and I'd go after you for storage charges, too, if the car was held for over 48 hours. Please, no misunderstanding here: I am not about to let a car go out of my shop with a partial, incorrect & unsafe repair where you drive it away. Another option would be to have it towed away from my shop in a disassembled condition, not driveable. In addition, I'd have noted on the work order that you declined to have recommended repairs authorized and I'd have gotten you to initial that statement before your car left my shop. Yes, I've been there where a customer got into an accident after declining repairs and then claimed that I'd said that it was "OK" to drive the car to another shop when I'd made no such statement; in fact, I'd advised them to have the car towed to the other shop and I even refered them to a reasonable cost flat-bed tow service.
But what has totally muddled the situation here is that the OP's daughter took the car to a "shade tree" mechanic, not a regular business. There's nothing that prevents a contracted business arrangement between private parties; for all we know, the shade tree guy here isn't even a qualified mechanic to do this work. But the car owner contracted to have him do the work. The bottom line remains that the OP's daughter has a civil problem, not a criminal legal situation. Further complicating the situation is that the AZ statute requires that parts to be returned to the owner must be requested before the repair is authorized.
Even by the AZ automotive repair statutes, the issue is a purely civil situation, with possible recourse through dispute resolution, Consumer Affairs protection, small claims court, or via an attorney. Of particular interest is that the AZ auto repair statutes only address monetary issues and do not require that a shop complete or effect repairs, but they do require that a shop post the auto repair consumer rights in the shop or the shop is in violation of the Consumer Affairs laws ... which can subject the shop to triple damages in a repair dispute, just for not having the sign posted. Last time I checked, no poster on the shop wall ever fixed a car ....
I doubt the OP really knows the entire conversation between her daughter and the shade tree mechanic and what was contracted to be done. No law enforcement agency around here is going to step into that situation, especially where the car owner had the car towed into the shop and acknowledges that they contracted for automotive repair work to be performed.
Last edited by sunsprit; 08-14-2012 at 10:34 PM..
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