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One solution to that situation that I've seen and liked is an illuminable "no turn on red" sign that can be programmed to come on only at the times when it is necessary. Something like this: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3661/5...dcc1b5df_z.jpg
The one I referred to in Anchorage looked more like this:
The intersection looks like this:
The two lanes heading north, meet with the two lanes heading south. The north bound lanes must turn right, and the south bound lanes must turn left. This is one of those intersections that was constantly blocked because there are a total of six lanes attempting to merge into just four lanes. However, by forcing people to wait until they get a green light before proceeding, it prevents the intersection from becoming blocked (most of the time).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac
An interesting article about stop signs as traffic calming: Multi-way Stops - The Research Shows the MUTCD is Correct
The consensus seems to be that a stop sign should not be used as a traffic calming tool, simply because it does a lousy job at it.
I really do not give a damn what the "consensus" might be, I am explaining why the Stop signs exist in the first place. It has nothing to do with "consensus" and everything to do with reality.
Great, just keep them east of the Mississippi River.
I noticed that you were careful to say that they "reduced injury from accidents" and not that they "reduced accidents." Roundabouts turn into a skating rink demolition derby during the winter. Only those looking for an accident would use them during the winter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac
We just got the speed limit raised to 75 on I-95 north of Old Town, Maine. It was one thing that unanimously passed the legislature here.
It was never the role of the federal government to determine State speed limits. All the States (except Hawaii) are either 65 mph, 70 mph, or 75 mph these days. Hawaii has a maximum speed limit of 60 mph, and DC has a maximum speed limit of 50 mph.
safety and flow of traffic. If you're stuck in the middle of the intersection waiting for your turn, then you become a traffic hazard for oncoming traffic if you happen to be there when it turns red.
quote]
Actually, if you "take the intersection" it is yours. Oncoming traffic must yield until you have cleared the intersection. You are within your rights to pull out into the intersection to turn left. If you are past the white line and the light turns red, the other traffic must allow you to complete your turn. I know this is the law in at least 22 states. Not sure about all states.
In some states the same is true of through traffic, howevr in other states for thru traffic it is illegal to enter the interseciton until there is sufficient room for you to clear it. This is to prevent gridlock.
I agree with the OP about stop signs. You should be permitte to merely slow down when the streets are empty. At 3 a.m. there is no point in continually stopping at every intersection when there are no cars for 20 miles. You visiion doe not improve by coming to a complete stop and constantly stopping wastes loads of gas, increases pollution and wears out cars faster. You would think in our resource and pollution conscious society today, they would change the rules.
4 way stops are nighmares. If you have an indecisive driver who is uncertain whether it is their turn, you are almost guaranteed an accident eventually.
One safety and traffic flow feature few people understand and appreciate is what is commonly known as the "Michigan left" Where there is room, left turns are accomplished by turning right and then making a U turn in a specailly designed lane in the median. It only works where there are very wide medians, but it has proven to significantly reduce accidents and improve traffic flow. A lot of people complain about it endlessly because they have no idea how much safer and fasater it makes the roads. Other states have bene adpting this as well, I seet it occiasionally in Ohio and Indiana. Not sure where else they have picked it up but it only works in states with lots of room. Not an option for most of the East coast.
By the time our the kids of the curent generation of teens are driving, it will be irrelvant. Cars will drive themselves and we will not have all of these problems. Still something really bothers me about the idea that people will not learn how to drive.
The put in some roundabouts near us and they worked great. Even in winter. However a handicapped persons comlpained that they were unsafe for handicapped people to cross, so they took them out rather than just telling the handicapped person to cross somewhere else. Lots of things our society does are ridiculous.
I agree with the OP about stop signs. You should be permitte to merely slow down when the streets are empty. At 3 a.m. there is no point in continually stopping at every intersection when there are no cars for 20 miles. You visiion doe not improve by coming to a complete stop and constantly stopping wastes loads of gas, increases pollution and wears out cars faster. You would think in our resource and pollution conscious society today, they would change the rules.
4 way stops are nighmares. If you have an indecisive driver who is uncertain whether it is their turn, you are almost guaranteed an accident eventually.
One safety and traffic flow feature few people understand and appreciate is what is commonly known as the "Michigan left" Where there is room, left turns are accomplished by turning right and then making a U turn in a specailly designed lane in the median. It only works where there are very wide medians, but it has proven to significantly reduce accidents and improve traffic flow. A lot of people complain about it endlessly because they have no idea how much safer and fasater it makes the roads. Other states have bene adpting this as well, I seet it occiasionally in Ohio and Indiana. Not sure where else they have picked it up but it only works in states with lots of room. Not an option for most of the East coast.
By the time our the kids of the curent generation of teens are driving, it will be irrelvant. Cars will drive themselves and we will not have all of these problems. Still something really bothers me about the idea that people will not learn how to drive.
As I attempted to explain to the OP, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether it makes sense or not. When the road was originally designed the number and placement of the Stop signs may have made sense then, but in reality it only requires a neighborhood petition to persuade someone on the City Assembly to put pressure on the city DOT to add another Stop sign.
It has absolutely nothing to do with studies, reports, safety, or even making sense, and everything to do with politics.
The put in some roundabouts near us and they worked great. Even in winter. However a handicapped persons comlpained that they were unsafe for handicapped people to cross, so they took them out rather than just telling the handicapped person to cross somewhere else. Lots of things our society does are ridiculous.
They put in a bunch of roundabouts where we live too. They work great and the traffic flows so much better than when we had traffic lights. The main problem is tourists who are not used to them. They are usually intimidated and come to a dead stop (Yield means Stop to them).
The problem with what you propose is people already run stop signs. By changing the rules to allow rolling stops during certain times of the day, you're opening the door to even worss driver behavior. Another problem is you're assuming there's no oncoming vehicles simply because you don't see anything. Two possibilities make this assumption dangerous, first is vehicles driving with headlights off (happens too frequently, especially among criminals) and second is vehicles entering the roadway from private homes or side streets. Don't assume that because you don't see a vehicle as you approach a stop sign that you can safely go without stopping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
I agree with the OP about stop signs. You should be permitte to merely slow down when the streets are empty. At 3 a.m. there is no point in continually stopping at every intersection when there are no cars for 20 miles. You visiion doe not improve by coming to a complete stop and constantly stopping wastes loads of gas, increases pollution and wears out cars faster. You would think in our resource and pollution conscious society today, they would change the rules.
4 way stops are nighmares. If you have an indecisive driver who is uncertain whether it is their turn, you are almost guaranteed an accident eventually.
One safety and traffic flow feature few people understand and appreciate is what is commonly known as the "Michigan left" Where there is room, left turns are accomplished by turning right and then making a U turn in a specailly designed lane in the median. It only works where there are very wide medians, but it has proven to significantly reduce accidents and improve traffic flow. A lot of people complain about it endlessly because they have no idea how much safer and fasater it makes the roads. Other states have bene adpting this as well, I seet it occiasionally in Ohio and Indiana. Not sure where else they have picked it up but it only works in states with lots of room. Not an option for most of the East coast.
By the time our the kids of the curent generation of teens are driving, it will be irrelvant. Cars will drive themselves and we will not have all of these problems. Still something really bothers me about the idea that people will not learn how to drive.
The one I referred to in Anchorage looked more like this:
The intersection looks like this:
The two lanes heading north, meet with the two lanes heading south. The north bound lanes must turn right, and the south bound lanes must turn left. This is one of those intersections that was constantly blocked because there are a total of six lanes attempting to merge into just four lanes. However, by forcing people to wait until they get a green light before proceeding, it prevents the intersection from becoming blocked (most of the time).
Last I knew, traffic with a green light still had the right of way over those turning on red. But I could see how it would make sense there, what with the alignment of the lanes and everything.
Quote:
Great, just keep them east of the Mississippi River.
I noticed that you were careful to say that they "reduced injury from accidents" and not that they "reduced accidents." Roundabouts turn into a skating rink demolition derby during the winter. Only those looking for an accident would use them during the winter.
Well, I wasn't sure of the actual numbers, but your comment convinced me to look it up.
From the Federal Highway Administration: Roundabouts: A Safer Choice - FHWA Safety Program
Intersections converted to roundabouts experience a 90% reduction in fatalities, a 76% reduction in injuries, and a 35% reduction in all crashes.
As for winter, I use a couple of roundabouts quite frequently, and they actually are pretty tame when it's slippery out. For the most part, people slow down, and that's really the biggest trick to winter driving, no matter the road. I don't think I've ever seen one become a "skating rink."
Quote:
It was never the role of the federal government to determine State speed limits.
Agreed 100% there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mon
One could make the argument that wasted time and gas are secondary to forcing traffic to slow in residential areas. But I agree, they are inefficient.
My only complaint with rotaries is that they aren't the best from a pedestrian safety standpoint, but they are far safer and more efficient that traditional intersections.
Well, with respect to pedestrian safety, the one benefit is that they usually put the crosswalks outside of the roundabout, and give a refuge in the middle, so you only have to cross one lane at a time. But if there are a lot of pedestrians, the engineers should most definitely take that into account and plan accordingly.
I suppose this counts as "other controversies," So I'll post this here. This is my opinion on things that I consider stupid on our roads here.
#1. This has to be any intersection marked with a "no right turn on red" restriction. If nothing is coming to my left, then why the shouldn't I be able to turn right?
#2. No left turn without green arrow. Seriously, what's wrong with the standard left-turn go on arrow, yield on plain green rule. I could understand if there were a visibility issue, but that isn't that often the case. Let's just create another reason to make people sit still and wait for the invisible man.
#3. Stop signs placed everywhere, even when visibility is clear. Stop signs should only be used if there is some form of obstacle to vision. Yield perfectly appropriate if there is a clear line of sight. It's like we have a fetish for wearing out brake pads in this country to stop when there isn't any reason to. Does whether the car settles back in its suspension (the definition of a complete stop) really have anything to do with safety, or is it just another excuse to write tickets. This leads to #4...
#4. The four-way stop. Yes, I understand the rules. I just feel that it is rather stupid to make all roads come to a complete stop. If traffic is light enough that all roads can stop, then it is light enough to give one road the right of way over the other. If traffic is truly balanced in all directions, a roundabout would work.
#5. The national 55 mph speed limit. Thankfully, it is no longer in effect. Probably the most oft-broken law in the history of man. Good riddance to that law.
</end rant>
All of these have a lot to do with liability except for #5 which had to do with resolving a fuel supply crisis. All it takes is one person to mess up on the road and claim there should have been a sign, or the signal said "I could go" to tie up a portion of a transportation budget into paying a settlement. It's better to be safe than sorry.
I suppose this counts as "other controversies," So I'll post this here. This is my opinion on things that I consider stupid on our roads here.
#1. This has to be any intersection marked with a "no right turn on red" restriction. If nothing is coming to my left, then why the shouldn't I be able to turn right?
#2. No left turn without green arrow. Seriously, what's wrong with the standard left-turn go on arrow, yield on plain green rule. I could understand if there were a visibility issue, but that isn't that often the case. Let's just create another reason to make people sit still and wait for the invisible man.
#3. Stop signs placed everywhere, even when visibility is clear. Stop signs should only be used if there is some form of obstacle to vision. Yield perfectly appropriate if there is a clear line of sight. It's like we have a fetish for wearing out brake pads in this country to stop when there isn't any reason to. Does whether the car settles back in its suspension (the definition of a complete stop) really have anything to do with safety, or is it just another excuse to write tickets. This leads to #4...
#4. The four-way stop. Yes, I understand the rules. I just feel that it is rather stupid to make all roads come to a complete stop. If traffic is light enough that all roads can stop, then it is light enough to give one road the right of way over the other. If traffic is truly balanced in all directions, a roundabout would work.
#5. The national 55 mph speed limit. Thankfully, it is no longer in effect. Probably the most oft-broken law in the history of man. Good riddance to that law.
</end rant>
1. Turning on red is dangerous at many intersections. It seems that traffic laws are not made assuming everybody is fully attentive when driving.
2. I don't know about you, but turning left seems to be one of the most dangerous driving maneuvers.
3. Personally, I hate this whether driving or bicycling. A city nearby does this and it annoys me to no end, especially considering many of the stop signs are at a slant, which means that downhill traffic has to stop at the most inefficient time (when they have the momentum). I'm guessing the reason for this is children, which tend to play on the street, or tended to.
5. The National Maximum Speed Limit was put in place (if I remember correctly) at a time when the U.S. was faced with a constant threat of oil embargoes from Middle Eastern nations and the average American car was a 10-15 mpg land yacht. Cars are most efficient at about 50-60 mph (exactly what speed mpg peaks at depends on the car and probably the driving conditions), with miles-per-gallon dropping off steeply beyond about 60-65 mph. So it was essentially a conservation measure.
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