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The officer in our case didn't give everyone a chance to share what happened. He only took the story of the people in the first car. Which they were totally shook up, blaming the car in front of them which wasn't even involved.
Then they stated that my mother hit them, and the lady behind my mother hit us.
If they were watching this man in front, how can they say my mother hit them, etc? Then they'd say stuff like, "It happened so fast that I don't really know." But the officer still took the other incorrect information.
I don't get the law. I don't see how this incorrect info. could be written and hold up in court when they admitted that they were busy looking and fussing at the driver in front of them, not the two cars behind them. The lady in the third car definitely didn't see this mysterious car, but it sounded good to her because it took the blame off of her.
Really, what it seems like is: The van in front of us blamed the man for stopping in the middle of the street, because they thought if they had not, they would have been held accountable for the cars behind.
As stated before, they kept switching their stories up but the cop didn't bother questioning it. One lady originally ran to all of us in the cars behind, stating that she was the driver. Later, they said the other lady was driving. On top of it all, the officer allowed them to go home to get their drivers license and didn't write them a ticket.
Before these people jumped into it, everything was okay. The lady that hit my mother knew she caused the accident, so she was apologizing to us at first. After the people in the van got involved, she started blaming this man along with them rather than continuing to blame herself.
She called up a few friends to come to the scene. I think one of the males she called realized that she was at fault, because he walked all around each car, taking pictures, then told her to be quiet (thinking she'd over talk).
Bottom line, the first people in the van didn't have their license, switched up their stories as to who was driving and only had a tiny bit of paint off their van... no dents or anything.
My mother's car was damaged from the back, then in the front from the car pushing us into the van.
The thing that's most unsettling is that we didn't get to take any pictures (only the guy that came for the lady in the last car was able to do so, which I know he wouldn't show because it puts his friend in the wrong).
Everyone keeps telling my mother to make sure she gets an attorney, because the people in the first car will definitely try to sue her even though they only received a little paint off. Even though they weren't hurt at all, everyone's saying they will pretend to have been hurt and possibly damage their car just to sue.
Which I can see why people are telling my mother this. They have lied continuously already (lied on the mysterious car in front of them, lied about who was driving, lied that my mother bumped them, kept mentioning needing their van fixed as if something majored had happened to it,etc.).
I'm thinking the people in the van and the lady that bumped my mother will get together and try to fault her. One of the ladies in the van kept mentioning that she's a paralegal, plus, they were much more talkative with one another, blaming the mysterious car, etc.
Oh well, I'll pray about it and hope for the best. Thanks for allowing me to vent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench409
I agree! And when you get a report, be sure to get it certified by the office personell. Certification is inexpensive and in most cases only admissible in court if certified (notarized). My wife's recent accident taught me that. Scrutinize the report for accuracy and have backup information to prove your point! Challenge it if necessary. Remember, the officer has to assemble everybody's facts and fill his paperwork out from his notes and memory. He can be just as fallible (even though trained) as any human. In our incident he had the map wrong and it 'appeared' my wife was driving on the wrong side of the road (she wasn't) and their insurance agency balked! We won the case due to the backup info showed he was incorrect.
generally police reports are not admissible since saying you did do something carrys no more weight then telling an officer you didnt do something. you talk he writes.
unless he saw the accident or spotted a violation the report usually isnt allowed since the report cant be cross examined.
even if certified the judge may not allow it unless there is reason and not just you told your side of the story.
the reason they dont allow them is unlike an e-mail or any other evidence introduced in court the judges are afraid because the report was written by an officer a jury may count it heavier then other evidence even though the officer didnt see the accident and is really just what he was told..
I hear ya, but I am wondering which city you live in. I live in one of the largest cities where there's usually lots of traffic and people that will honk at you for stopping at a red light (yes, it's actually happened plenty of times). People will cuss you out while forcing you to drive faster even when you're going the speed limit.
I'm not saying both were the case in our situation (no one honked and forced this time). However, in these types of cases, I don't see how you manage to not tailgate or be tailgated when there's heavy traffic all around, plus having to deal with crazy road-rage drivers.
Back to us: I never stated that we were tailgating, either. There was plenty of room between my mother's car and the van in front of us. When my mother noticed that the van stopped, she hit brakes which stopped her car. The car behind didn't have enough time, slamming my mother's car forward into the van a few times. I still don't know how she slammed into us multiple times rather than once...
When my mother's car stopped, I thought, "What a relief."
As my mother was getting ready to go around the van in front, all of a sudden, I felt a few very hard bangs from behind. All I could think was that someone was trying to kill us (my first thought wasn't that it was an accident, it felt like something from them stalker movies where a car tries to push another off the road).
While my head was banging and my body moving forward, I yelled to my mother we have to get out the car as fast as possible. Because again, it didn't feel like an accident, but more like someone ramming into your car on purpose.
Sad thing is: My mother and I are both too caring. Everyone's telling us to be prepared for a lot of lying from the other people, but still, there's a part of me that fears telling exactly how I felt and what happened because it feels like I'm turning against someone. I hate drama. If you know what I mean. I've always been the one to take the blame. So, I really don't know.
The lady that hit us stated that she just had a bad car accident in September. I assume she was at fault that time too because she mentioned she didn't have enough money to pay anymore deductibles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_J
Did everyone learn why they should not tailgate?
I stay "one thousand three" behind the vehicle in front of me (or more if bad weather)...
This is crazy. This officer didn't ask any of these questions (seat belts, driving too fast, tailgating, write her a ticket for not having her license on her or anything). All he did was write what the first two people in the van stated. The two people who were the least involved and didn't have a clue about what happened behind them as they were so focused on the guy in front of them.
So, in your case, I assumed you also received a ticket for failing to control speed? This is ridiculous!
Did you even bother hiring your own attorney? Do you think it's worth it to hire one?
Even though the people in the van were not hurt (not even a little bit) and only had a little paint off their truck (where I had to look about 10 times before seeing it... yes,that little), do you think they are going to really be that dirty to act like they were hurt, damage their van more, etc.?
I just hate that they even started talking. They are the reason things are the way they are now. Before they came up, the lady that hit us was taking the blame.
Sorry to hear about the ending results of your case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner
I wish I didnt have plenty of experience in this sort of stuff but I do. When you have an accident your fault or not the police officer always ask you directly if you were wearing your seat belt. This is included in his report and if you end up with an insurance injury claim you better believe a lawyer will see this and use it against you to reduce your settlement. I was the second car in a 3 car chain collision and because I dont tailgate I was barely able to come to a complete stop when the car in front of me locked downed its brakes. I stopped about 2 feet from the car. Then 2 seconds later the car behind me speeding and tailgating hit my rear going about 40 mph and knocked me into the car in front of me. . I found out later that the cop estimated my speed at 35 mph and that I was moving when the collision occured. This was 100% incorrect thanks to the moron cop. This sort of thing can cause big problems in court cases when the only thing you want is the truth. Never trust the officer NOT to screw things up. Some of them are pretty stupid but not all.
Hopefully, this is the last thing I'll write on this.
The police officer said a driver can make a sudden stop in the middle of the road whenever the person wants. He said that's the law. However, when reading online, it states otherwise. It states that it's negligence unless there's a car problem.
It really depends upon the road as to whether or not there is a reasonable expectation of a vehicle coming to a stop. On an Interstate, for example, where you may see signs for "No Stopping - except for emergencies, etc." then the car problem would come into play as an emergency. On a non-limited access highway, there is a reasonable expectation that a vehicle can and will stop at any second, for numerous reasons, be it a pedestrian or pet in the roadway, car that looked like it was pulling out of a side street, to enter a driveway, parallel park, stop to make a turn, etc. So, the officer would be correct that a vehicle can stop, and that a prudent driver should anticipate such with proper following distance. And, if the vehicle in question were parked in the driveway, that would indicate that the vehicle stopped to pull into a driveway, which is expected on a roadway with driveways; thus, it has no bearing as the van stopped and did not hit that vehicle.
Some police officers are averse to needless paperwork, and while he could issue a ticket for the van driver not having a license, as long as the driver was a licensed driver, the ticket is largely a moot point. Had she not been able to produce a valid license, that may be grounds for a ticket, but it wasn't worth it to make an issue of the matter because she did not have it with her. It's not really a factor with respect to the accident. And, as to whether or not the guy who pulled into the driveway should get a ticket, that's also up in the air, because if he was there when the police arrived, parked where he parked when the van stopped, he didn't leave the scene of the accident, and was ready to talk to the police should he be needed to do so. Again, not a factor that would come into play with anything to do with your claims and any ticket that was issued to your mother because the van did not strike that vehicle.
Talk to your insurance company, and/or attorney, and do not accept calls from the other parties, no matter what. There is nothing to be gained from discussing anything with any other party in the accident, or their representatives, other than to say that you have reported the matter to your insurance company, and/or attorney, and that's the person to whom they may speak. If your mother was issued a ticket, she will have to fight that in court, and the insurance company is not involved in that fight, save for the fact that it can strengthen her case if she is exonerated from having hit the van. It sounds like a mess, and I know two people who were in this exact situation, middle cars in a three-car accident, and neither received a ticket, nor had much of a fight with respect to getting the damage cleared as it was assessed to the vehicle at the rear of the accident that caused the chain reaction. Insurance investigators are usually more skilled at determining what happened than are some police officers who merely record what they are told from multiple sources, and want to clear an accident scene, issuing tickets and letting the judge sort things out in court. A police officer is not going to play judge and jury by the side of the road, nor should they, and they merely record reports and observations after the fact, and then issue a report.
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I don't see mention of the state that the accident occured. That is most important, as some states are 'no-fault'.
usually it is the liability of ANY car that strikes something, regardless of who hit YOU, Some states will push it back to the person who made FIRST contact (the guy who hit the LAST car in line). with 3 million accident free miles... I have been in 3 multi 'rear-end' crashes. (all caused by cell phone talking / txting SUV's on wet pavement). I am USUALLY the final car hit 'cuz I leave BIG space and always 'leave and out' as in Smith Driving rule #5. I have never been ticketed, but I have spent A LOT of time with insurance companies and I take LOTS of pictures at the scene.
They have all been money makers for me (got more $$ that it cost me to fix car) BUT... I hate the trouble, and NEVER have quite as good of car as I did before BOZO bonked me.
I've been reluctant to post this story because I don't know if it's relevant or not.
On the Dan Ryan inbound, I was driving a Chevy Express Cargo van.
Traffic in front of me came to a sudden stop, I stopped within inches of the Dodge mini van in front of me. The next thing I heard was 4 bangs.
A driver 3 cars behind me, struck the second, the second struck the first, the first struck me, and I struck the Dodge in front of me. The third car behind, backed up, turned into the 3rd. lane and left the scene.
I Called the Illinois State Police, they came out to investigate. The Trooper wrote no tickets, I gave him an accurate description of the vehicle and plate number, and asked when I might hear something about the one who left the scene, he replied: probably never. When I scoffed and pressed him, he said it wasn't a federal case, meaning they probably would do nothing.
Insurance company called about a week later investigating because the Dodge driver was trying to make a claim. The insurance adjuster asked poignant and very detailed questions: how many bangs did I hear before my impact with the vehicle in front, and other questions. I waited for about a month and was released from any liability.
Evidently, the first car behind all of us was traveling at a high rate of speed, failed to recognize stopped cars in front of him and caused the chain reaction.
After that day, whenever in stop and go traffic, I allowed at least one car length of space in front of me to avoid potential damage from other possible chain reaction occurrences.
...in these types of cases, I don't see how you manage to not tailgate or be tailgated when there's heavy traffic all around, plus having to deal with crazy road-rage drivers...
Right, in some large cities it can be quite difficult to not be tailgated. And if you don't tailgate in stop and go traffic, an endless stream of cars will cut in front of you and you will never get where you are going!
Anyway where I can, I stay far enough away from the car in front of me so I can stop. AND if someone is tailgating me, I double that distance to also allow that following car to stop without hitting me.
This happened to me long ago. Three cars ahead of me slammed on the brakes. THe first three cars, incuding me were stopping on time - the guy behind me did not. He hit me as I was stopping and catapulted me into the truck in front of me. That pushed the truck into the car in front of him, who in turn hit the next car. The guy behind me took off.
The damage to the back of my car was very little. I did nto even find it until months after the accident. I was not hit super hard, but enough to prevent me from stopping and to knock my foot off the brake. The front of my car, was totalled even though the damage really was nto that bad (the car was not worth all that much and parts were expensive). The truck in front of me was totalled. The car in front of him was damaged. A friend who was a mechanic, bought my car form the insurance company and evnetually restored it, but I already had a different car by then. I ened up heling him work on my old car (long story), but that is when I (or rather he) discovered the damage to the rear bumper. However everything was settled by then. Too late.
Because the driver behind me left and there was almost no initially visible damage to the back of my car, I got a ticket, despite another driver (in the next lane) telling the officer what happened. No one got the run away driver's license number. In the end, my insurance comapny ended up paying for it all. I told them to fight it, but they woudln't. They said it was not worth it. I simply went to traffic school and cleared the ticket since it was easier and cheaper in the long run than fighting it and risking the possibility of points and increased insurance.
The was in 1989 and it still ticks me off to this day.
I was not injured in that accident. However many years later while sitting in a left turn lane at a red light, we got rear ended hard by two cars. The first guy was not paying attention and the second never had a chance since the first did not hit his brakes at all, he just plowed into us and stopped dead (it was a Lumina and the nose drove underneath our van and lifted the rea wheels off the ground - lucky no one was killed or seriously injured). OUr van was almost new and had over $8000 worth of daamge. Anyway I felt fine, a little stiff but no real injury. WE went on to the fireworks show we were headeed for and enjoyed the fireworks. Three days later, my neck swelled up so much I could not wear a dress shirt and tie. I could not eat solid foods and could not move my head at all. The swelling went down but pain persisted for a while. I learned this is normal with soft tissue injuries. There is a delay of a day or two before it sets in.
I made the mistake of going to a chripractor. In a few months of treatment the pain went away, but the chiropractor never figured out what exactly was wrong. He just treated the area where the pain was and it stopped. I settled for medical (Chiropractic) costs plus about $3000. (The car insurance company took whatever they paid for the repair of he car). Seemed like a good deal at the time. However I should have seen a doctor. A few years later, the pain returned and that shoulder kept tightening up fairly regularly. The problem got worse until the pain became constant. It often prevents me from sleeping well. I cannot completlely turn my head to look over my shoulder on that side. I finally went to a real doctor who investigated and said I have a torn or dislocated rotator cuff from the accident. He said it is more treatable when you get to it right away. He suggested surgury. Looking into it, I learned surgury often does as much harm as good because they cut through muscle tissue to get to the problem. I declined. years passed and the pain and tightness grew worse. I went to a new doctor. My new doctor said they can now do wonders with this problem through physical therapy. When I find time, I will try it. Meanwhile, I settled for $3000 and endured years of pain and limited motion. I will have to pay a lot of co-pay dolalrs for physical therapy and might still need surgury later. I certianly wish I had gone to a real doctor to begin with and had not settled for $3000.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 11-26-2012 at 01:43 PM..
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