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racing in all forms improves the breed. for instance ford developed their EEC IV EFI computers in formula one. and while it seems like in nascar there is noting new to develop, you would be wrong. yes until last season nascar used carburettors instead of EFI, but they constantly had tighter and tighter rules dealing with everything from brakes to aerodynamics, to engine efficiency. as an instance, cars today have much better valve springs thanks to nascar, as well as better cam timing profiles. cars today also have much better aerodynamics than they did even a few years ago, again thanks to nascar racing.
remember that in most other sanctioning bodies, the level of technology allowed is huge, its fairly easy to get 850hp from the average formula one engine, despite them being under three liters as the amount of money spent on engine development, and the fact that they have 12 cylinders, is huge. honda for instance has an engine development budget each year of more than $50 million just for formula one. in nascar that money is spread out among 50 teams and four or five engine building companies. and nascar is limited to cam in block engines, and strict cylinder head design rules. the manufacturers have to have the heads they want to use for a season approved by nascar before the season starts, formula one doesnt have the same restrictions. in formula one there is a displacement limit at the top end, where as in nascar there is a maximum and a minimum displacement required.
in formula one you can use as many cylinders as you want, in nascar you are limiter to eight. in formula one if you want more power, you just up the rpms, these days a formula one engine idles at 12,000 rpm and has a redline of 18,000-19,000 rpm. in nascar the engines idle at a more normal 850 rpm and redline at around 9500 rpm.
in formula one there is no restrictor plates in the intakes, in nascar there are two tracks and four races that have restrictor plates, and the cars still run near 200mph.
and also dont forget the weight difference, in formula one the cars weigh in at around 1500lbs, while in nascar they weigh in at around 3400lbs. in formula one they have all the tire they want, as well as a couple of different compounds they can use, where as in nascar the tires are limited to one set of specifications, and the wheels used are all the same for all cars.
in formula one they have active suspensions, nascar doesnt.
in the end all racing is entertainment, and a development tool for the manufacturers.
It would seem you know as little about F1 as you claim others know about NASCAR.
If going around the same circle time and time again is competitive...
F1 drivers are far better than their NASCAR counterparts. There's no comparison at all here. For starters, they can actually turn in more than one direction. Some F1 drivers have come to NASCAR because there's more money in it, and it's less dangerous for them.
NASCAR has it's place, going to a race is kind of like going to a baseball or football game, some people just go for the camaraderie, hanging out with friends, and drinking. But make no mistake, it's not in the same league as F1 is. An F1 car could run circles (pun intended) around any NASCAR car out there.
F1 is simply the pinnacle of the sport. NASCAR? I know some people who have street legal cars that could probably outperform most NASCAR teams around a circuit easily, and definitely on a tight road course.
There are more leader changes in one race of a NASCAR then typical F1 season.
F1 drivers are better, then why are the F1 racers that go to NASCAR only mediocre?
Face the facts they are different, both are racing but different styles. A true automotive enthusiust would understand the ups and downs of both. Just seems alot of poser car snobs like to talk about how much better F1 is, and have no respect for it.
They are running in the most successful and rewarding $$$$$$ race series in this country. Why would they want to run in F1? It is a downgrade from NASCAR.
In this country the number one motor sport is NASCAR and every competitor in every other motor sport wants to run NASCAR. Very few if any want to run F1.
Just like American race fans only a few like F1.
I have turned down free tickets to F1 when it ran at Indy.
I'm not an Indy car fan but Indy car drivers are much better than F1 drivers. Indy cars enter the flat 90 degree corners at Indy at 220 mph. F1 cars never even hit 220 mph.
I think F1 is a kiddie sport. First Go Carts than F1.
I agree that the cars are rather primitive and since most of the tracks are banked ovals the outcome of the race depends primarily on the car, tire choice and suspension setup instead of the driver not to mention the fact that they dont have to outbrake or outdrive (out of the corner) each other like the road racers or offroad racers do.
Actually it's the exact opposite. When NASCAR got away from racing "real" cars they implemented stringent rules regarding equipment and setup which equalizes the vehicles and makes the competition more about the drivers than the cars. Yes a crew chief can adjust shocks, tire pressure, etc to match track conditions, but even that requires feedback from the driver to get it right.
What? The Federal Government (Obama) pays for NASCAR? I thought that NASCAR was a private sector enterprise. I had no idea that it was a government project
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but there was a lot of NASCAR pork in the recent fiscal cliff agreement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmptrwlt
You are clearly not up to date on F1:
Engine: V8, 2.4L, 90-degree formation, 18,000 rpm limit, minimum weight is 95 kg / 209 lbs.
Supension: Cars must have conventional sprung suspension. Any system, such as active suspension, that can alter the suspension or its geometry while the car is moving is forbidden.
Weight: Minimum 640 kg / 1410 lbs including driver
Tyres: Competitors are allowed only a limited number of tyre sets during a race event: eleven dry, four intermediate, three wet. Pirelli is the only supplier.
Honda left F1 in 2008.
Sources: F1.com, Wikipedia
Only 18 sets of tires to go 200 miles?? How do they manage with only three compounds?
Engine: V8, 2.4L, 90-degree formation, 18,000 rpm limit, minimum weight is 95 kg / 209 lbs.
Supension: Cars must have conventional sprung suspension. Any system, such as active suspension, that can alter the suspension or its geometry while the car is moving is forbidden.
Weight: Minimum 640 kg / 1410 lbs including driver
Tyres: Competitors are allowed only a limited number of tyre sets during a race event: eleven dry, four intermediate, three wet. Pirelli is the only supplier.
Honda left F1 in 2008.
Sources: F1.com, Wikipedia
Just to be clear, I don't have a particularly high opinion of F1 either. Maybe a fraction of a percentage of a higher opinion of F1 than of NASCAR. Their rules seem very restrictive also, though there is a tiny bit of room for individualization and innovation (they recently announced a 1.6L turbo V6 for 2014, so tuning will be important). Personally I have a preference for touring car racing series's and rally racing, which are even less homogenized.
Used to be F1 allowed engines ranging from 1.5L turbo I4s all the way to 3.5L H16s and V12s. There was a lot of latitude in how to make power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by duster1979
Actually it's the exact opposite. When NASCAR got away from racing "real" cars they implemented stringent rules regarding equipment and setup which equalizes the vehicles and makes the competition more about the drivers than the cars. Yes a crew chief can adjust shocks, tire pressure, etc to match track conditions, but even that requires feedback from the driver to get it right.
That's where my problem is. NASCAR used to be known as "stock car racing" once upon a blue moon. Because a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, NASCAR drivers raced real cars, not these cookie cutter machines. It's not supposed to be "about the drivers" and it never was. NASCAR"s origins come from southern liquor bootleggers, and them trying to outrun our otherwise outmaneuver the law. It was about the cars and what you could do to them mechanically to make them go faster than the other guy. THAT'S racing.
They are running in the most successful and rewarding $$$$$$ race series in this country. Why would they want to run in F1? It is a downgrade from NASCAR.
In this country the number one motor sport is NASCAR and every competitor in every other motor sport wants to run NASCAR. Very few if any want to run F1.
Just like American race fans only a few like F1.
I have turned down free tickets to F1 when it ran at Indy.
I'm not an Indy car fan but Indy car drivers are much better than F1 drivers. Indy cars enter the flat 90 degree corners at Indy at 220 mph. F1 cars never even hit 220 mph.
I think F1 is a kiddie sport. First Go Carts than F1.
Let's compare:
2012 salaries:
Fernando Alonso: $37.2 mill - endorsements?. Total: At least $37.2 mill
Dale Earnhardt Jr.: salary $4.1 mill + $24 mill in endorsements. Total: $28.2 mill
Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button: $19.8
This fat bloke looked pretty excited. That's a McLaren F1 car, btw.
The Indianapolis circuit was crap. They shouldn't have raced there.
In 2014 there will be two races in the United States. This years calendar include Australia, Malaysia, China, Bahrain, Spain, Monaco, Canada, Britain, Germany, Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Singapore, Korea, Japan, India, Abu Dhabi, United States and Brazil. That is what I call an international sport / phenomenon.
90 degree corners in F1 are quite different. We are talking proper race circuits (Spa-Francorchamps, Monza) here, not some damn ovals . Want a nerve-wracking experience? Drive through Eau Rouge flat out.
2012 salaries:
Fernando Alonso: $37.2 mill - endorsements?. Total: At least $37.2 mill
Dale Earnhardt Jr.: salary $4.1 mill + $24 mill in endorsements. Total: $28.2 mill
Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button: $19.8
This fat bloke looked pretty excited. That's a McLaren F1 car, btw.
The Indianapolis circuit was crap. They shouldn't have raced there.
In 2014 there will be two races in the United States. This years calendar include Australia, Malaysia, China, Bahrain, Spain, Monaco, Canada, Britain, Germany, Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Singapore, Korea, Japan, India, Abu Dhabi, United States and Brazil. That is what I call an international sport / phenomenon.
90 degree corners in F1 are quite different. We are talking proper race circuits (Spa-Francorchamps, Monza) here, not some damn ovals . Want a nerve-wracking experience? Drive through Eau Rouge flat out.
The bottom line and my last post.
F1 is a girlyman spectator sport for the whine and cheese lovers.
Real men go to NASCAR races and drink beer and eat beef Yahoo.
2012 salaries:
Fernando Alonso: $37.2 mill - endorsements?. Total: At least $37.2 mill
Dale Earnhardt Jr.: salary $4.1 mill + $24 mill in endorsements. Total: $28.2 mill
Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button: $19.8
This fat bloke looked pretty excited. That's a McLaren F1 car, btw.
The Indianapolis circuit was crap. They shouldn't have raced there.
In 2014 there will be two races in the United States. This years calendar include Australia, Malaysia, China, Bahrain, Spain, Monaco, Canada, Britain, Germany, Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Singapore, Korea, Japan, India, Abu Dhabi, United States and Brazil. That is what I call an international sport / phenomenon.
90 degree corners in F1 are quite different. We are talking proper race circuits (Spa-Francorchamps, Monza) here, not some damn ovals . Want a nerve-wracking experience? Drive through Eau Rouge flat out.
As much as I like both I noticed that F1 fans are so concerned about NASCAR. I mean they are very obsessed with comparing the two and making snide remarks. If one is so safe and secure in their convictions then why go on and on about it? I bet most NASCAR fans are too caught up drinking and doing things that they do to be concerned.
Continue to use pictures and project what you want to believe. He's clearly looking at something else and/or conversing so his mind may not even be on the car unlike Lewis' photo which shows him staring at the car and looks to be overwhelmed and/or confused. However, the difference between me and you is that I'm not going to immediately say my perception makes my argument correct.
NASCAR isn't as much of a international sport because it isn't concerned about becoming an international sport. NASCAR makes so much money for a majority one nation sport. Kimi Raikonnen, Jacques Villeneuve, Nelson Piquet Jr. and JP Montoya have been average at best. F1 drivers are very open to the idea of coming to NASCAR (mainly money because not all of them make nearly as much as Vettel or Alonso) and maybe have a similar reasoning as you but I would expect them to be more intelligent than that. NASCAR drivers don't go to F1 because lets be honest, they don't have any reason to try. They make similar if not more money than the best F1 drivers.
However, let's not let common sense get in the way. They are fat pigs who eat McDonalds while driving in circles. Foreigners running their mouth about the American sports. What else is new.
Last edited by Yellow Jacket; 01-21-2013 at 04:55 PM..
there are road courses in nascar you know. watkins glenn and infineon raceway come to mind for sprint cup, and nationwide series also goes to road america.
Yes, there are. Those are usually the races where the number of crashes spikes significantly because the drivers aren't used to turning the wheel the other way.
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