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Many of their models are also notoriously unreliable. In fact I find it ironic that some brands that are constantly ooohed and ahhhed over, are also many times fairly problematic and fussy cars that are prone to non-stop mechanical and electrical gremlins. Meanwhile cars like the Corolla and Camry are derrided. Ironics seeing as how these are both made by the most highly ranked and most reliable automaker in the country.
For those of us that love driving, and the connection we have with cars designed around driving enjoyment and feedback through the controls, the difference is major. I've had many BMWs and loved each of them for their driving feel and feedback. The responsiveness to the control inputs is second to none. If that means that the parts are sometimes at their limit and need more maintenance, so be it, as the reward is greater. If you look at the pics I posted, usually the only way Hondas and Toyotas are rewarding to drive is after they've been modified with parts designed to give that better feedback, and at that point, they are no more reliable than the BMWs. It's the tradeoff enthusiasts are willing to give to ge the driver's cars we prefer.
The only Hondas and Toyotas I'd own and drive ar modified sports versions, like my old CRX Si, and at that point, they are no more reliable than any true sporting car. Boring cars have to be reliable or no one would buy them, as they have no other redeeming quality.
For those of us that love driving, and the connection we have with cars designed around driving enjoyment and feedback through the controls, the difference is major. I've had many BMWs and loved each of them for their driving feel and feedback. The responsiveness to the control inputs is second to none. If that means that the parts are sometimes at their limit and need more maintenance, so be it, as the reward is greater
Ahh... I see, so there must be some unwritten rule that only people who love driving drive cars like BMWs while the rest of us poor saps drive Toyotas, and what's more, since these are so superior in every way, we should give them special license for being prone to breakage. Am I missing something here? Would it be out of place to say that I actually enjoy driving my econo pickup truck? Given that notion it too should also have routine parts failures as the result of my "enthusiasm". Yet wouldn't you know? Its hardly ever had a problem some 260,000 miles so far.
Oh- and the latest long-term reliability reports came out 2 weeks ago. Toyota's 3 brands are all well above anything BMW or Mercedes makes. So in fact yes, Toyotas are actually more reliable than those other two brands and have been for decades so far.
For those of us that love driving, and the connection we have with cars designed around driving enjoyment and feedback through the controls, the difference is major. I've had many BMWs and loved each of them for their driving feel and feedback. The responsiveness to the control inputs is second to none. If that means that the parts are sometimes at their limit and need more maintenance, so be it, as the reward is greater. If you look at the pics I posted, usually the only way Hondas and Toyotas are rewarding to drive is after they've been modified with parts designed to give that better feedback, and at that point, they are no more reliable than the BMWs. It's the tradeoff enthusiasts are willing to give to ge the driver's cars we prefer.
The only Hondas and Toyotas I'd own and drive ar modified sports versions, like my old CRX Si, and at that point, they are no more reliable than any true sporting car. Boring cars have to be reliable or no one would buy them, as they have no other redeeming quality.
How's your Volt doing? Not loving driving anymore?
Many of their models are also notoriously unreliable. In fact I find it ironic that some brands that are constantly ooohed and ahhhed over, are also many times fairly problematic and fussy cars that are prone to non-stop mechanical and electrical gremlins. Meanwhile cars like the Corolla and Camry are derrided. Ironics seeing as how these are both made by the most highly ranked and most reliable automaker in the country.
The only new cars ever bought in my family are a 2001 Corolla S and a 2002 BMW 325iT
Both cars have had zero issues... the 2001 Corolla still has the original factory battery from 2001.
Both cars are special to US...
The Toyota because I wrote a letter to the President of Toyota asking is we could visit the factory to watch our car being built... to every one's surprise the answer was yes... we spent 6 hours watching Mom's car go from a bare shell to driving off the end of the line... many along the line signed the engine compartment with a sharpie... we have the best memories of the day we spent at NUMMI... they even let us bring in a camera so we have pictures sitting in the car as it is going down the line.
The BMW was a fluke... I had to work overseas for several months and had a friend that wanted a new 325iT and they were quite rare at the time... one was ordered for Factory Delivery in Munich and that too was a great experience... so are my memories of driving the autobahn with the cruise at 100mph... the fastest the factory said I should drive after the 1000 km break-in and before the first oil change.
When the car arrived Stateside... the friend was going through a divorce... the last thing he wanted was a new car for his wife... so, I kept it.
As mentioned... both cars have been 100% reliable with no issues... except the Corolla has the same broken center hinge console as everyone I have ever been in... the plastic hinge just gives out...
The Corolla gets 42 from Tahoe to Oakland and the BMW gets 32 from Oakland to Seattle...
Doubt there will ever be another new car in the family... my work trucks are Chevrolets... 1985 and 1991...
They are good too... the 85 did have a transmission rebuild and both have had new starters and water-pumps and radiators... Engines perfect.
My hobby is restoring horseless carriage, antique and classic autos... driven everything from a 1905 Oldsmobile, Model T's, Model A's Corvettes, Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, Lincoln MarkIV, Shelby Cobra, Pantera and GT40...
There really isn't a car I don't enjoy... for years I drove the same old 72 Plymouth Valiant that I bought for $800 and still have it today...
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 03-06-2013 at 06:15 PM..
This is directed to you enthusiasts out there. I've been reading a lot of car websites lately. When I get to the comments sections, I see a great deal of derision of people who honestly just want a well-made, decent, reliable vehicle to get where they want to go.
Words like "sheep" and "brainwashed" and "appliance" are thrown around quite a bit, as if being extremely practical and frugal in the choice of a vehicle is a bad thing.
I can respect people who place more value on styling, high-performance and handling, fun-to-drive etc. I get it. I really do.
For me, however, my car is not a love affair. It's a means to an end. I don't need it to give me thrills running up my leg. I just want to have a reasonable assurance that it will work and that I won't spend much time or money in the shop beyond the basic maintenance. Is that such a terrible thing?
I don't hate you.
I almost even understand you.
I can appreciate some people just want basic transport.
Don't listen to the haters.
BMW and Mercedes do have a different feel than other cars...
My family doctor always drove Cadillacs... one year, he looked at a new Mercedes SL and bought it...
Didn't keep it 3 months... they took it on their annual Seattle trip and hated it... he said every bump or groove in the road was transmitted into the car...
And someone used to Mercedes would probably think the Cadillac drove like a boat with poor control or feel.
Well, seems I struck a nerve. How do you drive your truck that you get feedback and road handling enjoyment out of it? Do you look for new roads to drive it on? Do you drive it just to drive and enjoy the drive or is it simply used for a job and a tool to get from point A to point B? Is getting to pont B more important than how it feels to get to point B? yes, enthusaists like cars that make them want to DRIVE. Not just cars that you use becaeu you HAVE to go somewhere. Do you ever get out of your truck after finding a twisty backroad and say, damn, that was fun! I cna't wait to do that again!
Yes, just like British sports cars from the '60s, and Italian exotics from the '70s, you give enthusiast cars a bit of license for being "prone to breakage" because of how sublimely good they are the rest of the time. It's as ****ing simple as that.
And had my BMW 740iL not died from when my wife drove through a deep puddle and ingesting water, hydrolocking the engine at 185k miles, I'd still be driving it. I replaced that car with a Mini Cooper because life's too short to drive boring cars. In a couple years I'll probably find another BMW 740i Sport to use as a long distance tourer and sport sedan. Because even if they take a bit more to maintain, the rewards are worth it, as I DRIVE my cars, looking for fun twisty backroads for the fun of it. I doubt you do that in your truck.
How's your Volt doing? Not loving driving anymore?
Actually it's quite fun, with a lot of punch from 5-10 mph when you get on the throttle. It's like driving a spaceship, not an appliance. And remember, I also have an MGB and a MINI Cooper. So yeah, I still look for twisty backroads and punch it coming out of the corners. I'm looking at replacing the Goodyear Assurance high life tires on the Volt with Toyo Proxis that have more grip, for even more lateral Gs. Much like the one that Grassroots Motorsports is modifying to autocross with:
I'm guessing you've visited the car lounge? The majority of people on that site wear their sisters jeans and think ratty mk4 jettas have soul.
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