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Old 03-11-2013, 09:53 AM
 
2,106 posts, read 5,788,257 times
Reputation: 1510

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I'd say there has been a HUGE improvement. I'm a child of the late 70's, early 80's and at about that time my parents switched to Toyotas because the cars coming out of Detroit then were truly awful, poorly built things that fell aparts almost immediately. We just bought Camry after Camry and never had any issues.

That said, I would have no problem buying either a Ford Fusion of a Chevy Cruze. In fact I rented a Cruze about 2 months ago, and I am not kidding when I say that it was about the funnest car I've driven in a long time. What seems to have happened with a lot of the econo American cars is that they give you what many of the Japanese cars gave you in the 70's: A lot of additional and unexpected features for the same price as an econ car. The Cruze I rented was supposedly the base model but it came with everything. I'm not sure where the comments about the interior comes from because the interior in this car was actually really nice and definitely nicer than those I've seen in some of the newer Hondas and Toyotas.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
1,710 posts, read 4,133,835 times
Reputation: 2718
Detroit has the burden of the UAW bringing them down. The UAW is a corrupt organization with greedy, inept workers. The Asian automakers that employ hard working, well trained workers do turn out world class cars here in the United States.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:22 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,672,505 times
Reputation: 23268
I own a lot of cars... over 50 vehicles in various states of repair, restoration or future projects.

The car I drive everyday is my 91 Styleside Silverado Pickup... zero issues on a 22 year old vehicle except the paint is starting to go over the cab... it's parked outside.

My service truck that is always fully loaded is a 85 Chevrolet Van... also no problems and it is maxed out with racks, bins and cabinets...

I own BMW, VW, Toyota, Morris, Austin, Triumph, Honda on the foreign side and they are all OK too. The BMW is the car I use for road trips otherwise it is in the garage...

Growing up in the auto business... I just don't see the huge disparity so often discussed.

Mom drove a 76 VW rabbit with a stick for 25 years... she called it her scooter... Consumer Reports panned her car yet it was very economical and never gave her any trouble... even had the original clutch and the Michelin tires went almost 100k miles.

She bought a Corolla because she need power steering for parking... that was in 2001 and has been flawless except for the center console glove box hinge... she still has her 12 year old factory battery.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:24 AM
 
2,775 posts, read 5,165,050 times
Reputation: 3673
They can compete with lower end Korean & Japanese cars.

Not a fair comparison when comparing to European models - with the exception of VW/Fiat, most are luxury sport sedans - and here American cars cannot compete yet with Europeans (BMW, Audi, Mercedes) and even Lexus/Infinity are above.

Most Japanese car are still heads and shoulders above both American & European when looking only at reliability.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:04 AM
 
2,106 posts, read 5,788,257 times
Reputation: 1510
We definitely had a whole slew of really shoddy American cars when I was a kid. My Mom had a 78' Malibu.Transmission failure after 2 years. Dad owned an 84' Buick Riviera, which was a nice car at the time. Within a month the power windows failed as did the AC, and the transmission. The dealer took it back.

But if you look at some of the best-selling cars of the 80's and 90's one stands out and that would be the Taurus. Those cars were awful. I remember when I used to get parts for my classic Mercury at the salvage yards. There were always MANY Taursuse sitting in several rows. By far the most plentiful car there. You could tell that many had failed head gaskets , a common problem for that era. The inside of the engine compartment was sprayed with milky looking coolant and oil. Most had less than 100k on the clock. In fact, I had a housemate with a 93' Taurus and even though the thing was loaded with leather and power everything, the car was already totally worn out when he bought it used with 60,000 miles. It blew the head gasket at around 90,000.

The new Taurus? Totally different animal and about 3,000% improved. I'd have no problem buying one myself. As far as luxury cars go, I think Cadillac needs more credit than it gets. To me a lot of the European brand luxury cars are coasting on their brand names and are nowhere close to being what they were a dozen years or more ago. They have the name and the special cachet' that comes with that. Cadillac seems to unfairly be still associated as a frumpy floaty boat of a car when in fact the ATS for example is about the best handling, best driving semi luxo sedan you can get.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:35 AM
 
2,168 posts, read 3,387,674 times
Reputation: 2653
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The current Consumers Report still lists Dodge, Jeep, and Ford as the three worst marques overall among those widely marketed in the USA.

I don't always agree with CR, because in my opinion, they editorially weight safety too heavily and any ratings must necessarily be a cumulative score of numerous factors, but I have never seen any evidence that CR rates dishonestly, nor is there any apparent motive for them to do so.
The reason CR has been ranking Ford lower is MyFord Touch. For some reason the old fuddy duddy CR editors can't figure out how to use it while actual buyers don't seem to have a problem. It's one of Ford's most popular options. CR complains about the lack of haptic feedback yet fails to acknowledge that everything from volume to temperature can be adjusted via voice command. I don't hold much faith in CR's ratings--they seem to obsess over things that most consumers don't.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego A.K.A "D.A.Y.G.O City"
1,996 posts, read 4,770,445 times
Reputation: 2743
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
They can compete with lower end Korean & Japanese cars.

Not a fair comparison when comparing to European models - with the exception of VW/Fiat, most are luxury sport sedans - and here American cars cannot compete yet with Europeans (BMW, Audi, Mercedes) and even Lexus/Infinity are above.

Most Japanese car are still heads and shoulders above both American & European when looking only at reliability.

The U.S. automakers can compete with the Europeans, it's just that they choose not to, and don't wanna the spend the money to do so. I'll admit that Cadillac, Lincoln, or any other American car cannot truly compare to a European flagship, Audi, BMW specifically. Not only do those European marques have a much higher level of performance and sophisticated technology built into them, but they just feel and look so much more luxurious when you step inside of one. Although Cadillac has come a long way and has done a decent job with the new XTS and ATS, but they are still platform based off other lower GM brands. The European's don't have this problem as much, as all they build are higher end luxury cars which is all they know how to do per say that feel unique, without compromise, and are a little more special to drive.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,771,707 times
Reputation: 10120
So let me get this straight, your coworker - not your drinkin buddy, life long pal, the guy who you pulled from a burning building - just some random coworker tosses you the keys to his brand new ZL-1. And this is the car you choose to base the American car industry on? A muscle car widely panned for it's dated, stark and cheap interior, excessive weight but glorious powertrain?

Huh.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:00 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
Reputation: 18304
In fact Ford and GM are sad id to be suffering qauilty control problems attributed to them introducing so many entirely new models.Both road and track and consumer reports state this from owners surveys on reliablity.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:48 PM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,952,353 times
Reputation: 11491
When the American car makers figure out what the Japanese, Koreans and Europeans did long ago, they will have world class cars. Until then, this years model of anything might be a good one and the very same model next year will be trash.

What those other makers do is design a model and then incrementally evolve and improve it. It too what, decades for Chevy, Dodge, and Ford to make very popular cars even resemble what they used to when everyone wanted one? Look at the other maker's cars and you can see how they evolved from a basic design and each year they dealt with last model years issues. Their cars are refined. American makers simply scrap designs and when you look at one of their cars you wouldn't know they ever made one before this year.

American makers abandon designs that are just catching on, start fresh and make another combobbled design and see if it sticks.

Take some very nice cars, the Thunderbird. Where did it go? Then along comes Mazda and everyone buys a Miata. They still sell them today. Same with the Lexus SC series cars. Buick made something similar, they sell a few then someone farts and they abandon the design. Lexus goes on to sell them all over the place and still do.

So today's Camaro is nice. Imagine what it would be if they had just evolved and refined the design. I bet within a few years it will look little like it does today or noting like it did 20 years ago. Then look at a Japanese or Euro anything. Take a BMW and you'll know what I mean.

Sure, all those other makers dropped some real duds too but not nearly as many.

See a Ford Bronco lately? Yeah, people pay lots of money for old ones but look who sells the heck out of similar class SUVs now? Ford figured it out a little but where was the Ford Escape 10 years ago, 15 yrs ago. 20? Now look at a RAV4 or CRV. Look at the xTerra. All those sales could be going to American makers.

It is simple, buying an American car is a crap shoot. Maybe a good year, maybe the last year made, who knows?
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