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Unfortunately, the Focus ST is one of those things with one of those left-foot-operated doohickeys that only students of ancient automotive history know how to use. And the OP doesn't want anyway.
He seemed at least willing to consider a manual. That said my recommendation was based on taking his stated 28K starting price for a GTI at face value. Now that I look into it, a GTI starts at just under 26K with a DCT, so the Focus ST doesn't look quite so competitively priced as it seemed at first glance. Plus, now he expresses a preference for a 4-door (and by the way odanny, a 4-door hatchback is also commonly referred to as a 5-door in the industry, something to keep in mind when shopping around) and I'd say an ST is out of the running. At this point the only advantage of the Focus ST is better parts/dealer network, and maybe reliability but we don't really know that part yet.
The question the OP has to ask himself is what price is he willing to pay for driving passion, which frankly the base Impreza has very little of? If I'd narrowed it down to a base Impreza versus a GTI, I'd find a way to make the GTI fit into my budget if it meant eating ramen noodles for the next 5 years.
I'd agree that the Focus ST is closer to the GTI than the Impreza. The Volkswagens are also incredibly good in snowy weather, they tend to get a lot of that in Germany, the engineers have experience with it.
Silverbox, That Jetta is from two generations ago, and if memory serves me right, it was built in Mexico, however the Engine most likely came from Germany. The 06-10 Jetta and the 11+ have been pretty decent cars and were always praised for their fit and finish, and were a notch above the previous generation.
We currently have two Jettas in my garage, one is an 06' Jetta 2.5L Auto 6 Speed, the other a 12' Jetta 2.0TDI Manual 6 Speed. I've owned the 06' since early 07', purchased it with 28k miles on it, and it's been mostly flawless the entire time I've owned it. It did develop a slight oil leak around 75k miles which comes from the rear main seal area...as such, it will simply leak a little bit of oil till I get rid of this car in another 5 years. Some components are starting to break, but it's as a result of age more than anything else.
Most folks who seem to complain about issues with their VW (on our forum vwvortex.com) are folks who've modified the cars. In stock form, the cars seem to behave pretty well, which is the reason I have yet to modify the computer on my TDI, even an additional 30 horsepower and 70 lbs of torque make me want reliability first and foremost.
If you're wanting a car from Germany, the Golf and GTI both hail from there, so I'd definitely recommend them. If gas mileage is important, i'd recommend the TDI, but if you're wanting an automatic, a 2.5L equipped Golf might be a better bet for cost of maintenance over the DSG (dual clutch manual/automatic). The 2.5L cars are equipped with a conventional torque converter automatic that hails from Japan...I believe it's an Aisen (sp). The car would be a bit more comparable to the Subaru, however still more fun to drive, with better fit and finish than the focus, and better material choices...If AWD was a big concern, I think I'd love to buy a used R32 The exhaust note from that car is pure sexiness on an almost exotic level, plus AWD, golf body, made in germany, and automatic only...Hey, it sounds like the R32 was made for you
I love the R, if price is no concern, I pick one out tomorrow, and my search is over. But........
Today I looked at both Impreza's and GTI's, and basically I am looking at practical versus sexy, AWD versus acceleration, so, yes, comparing an Impreza to a GTI is not exactly a fair comparison, but then factoring fuel mileage and price, the goal is to find the right blend of give and take and be happy to settle for an acceptable combination of all the features available.
Quite honestly, I cannot get enthusiastic about the Impreza, and I'm trying to. But it is simply not there. If the battle was between a Golf and an Impreza, we'd be talking about a level playing field. But the GTI is clearly not similar in most respects to the Impreza.
Also, used VW's have great resale value, and I am not considering (anymore) saving a few grand for a vehicle that already has 15 to 30K miles on it. I will be splitting my driving (to work, anyway) between a work car, truck, and whatever I purchase, so I plan on keeping the miles low.
And forget the Detroit wheels, I don't like them, I'm going to opt for the Laguna wheels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny
I love the R, if price is no concern, I pick one out tomorrow, and my search is over. But........
... I will be splitting my driving (to work, anyway) between a work car, truck, and whatever I purchase, so I plan on keeping the miles low.
Keep your eye pealed for a 'cherry' one owner R
Try each on to see what fits, I will have to admit the GTI feels good for my style of road driving (switchbacks and sweeping curves). I do like the WRX for muddy mtn roads auto-cross style. I have been renting Focus ST, but this last week took a VW. It was much more fun, and I put Lots more 'extra' miles on it! The Focus has been pretty nice and I like the side Mirrors with built in convex in the corners. 39-42 MPG is impressive too. Probably a great, fun, 'utility' car.
Whatever you get, you may enjoy enough to put some miles on her
Last month I got to ride in a friend's FORD GT-40 as it needed some 'exercise', he has ~ $600k in it with mods. It was impressive, but.... no thanks... I wouldn't enjoy the stress of wondering if it was gonna get hit or stolen. He does enjoy driving it and has been cross country 3x., so... If you've got a decent car... enjoy DRIVING it!
Quote:
..I love Ramen noodles....
Ugh, you may have to eat those words... My youngest kid lived through college with Top Ramen, crashing free food events, and a $400 GTI w/ 300k miles. (now a GTD)
You can't really compare the two. One is a driver's car and the other is a commuter car. You should be comparing the GTI to the WRX. The GTI is a good mix of practical daily driver and fun sports car. It has decent MPG, but not as good as a true commuter car. It is pretty fast but not as fast as a real sports car. The interior is excellent, same quality as an Audi. The handling is excellent. Overall it's probably the best mix of fun and practicality you'll find in a car. There's a reason why this car has such a strong following. Once you've driven it, you understand
If you don't care at all about the sports car qualities, get an Impreza. If you care at all about having a fun car, get the GTI. The decision depends on what you're looking for in a car.
Also the GTI is not unreliable despite what the clueless people in this thread are telling you. Unlike some other VW cars that are manufactured in Mexico, the GTI is shipped from Germany and they are very well built.
You can't really compare the two. One is a driver's car and the other is a commuter car. You should be comparing the GTI to the WRX. The GTI is a good mix of practical daily driver and fun sports car. It has decent MPG, but not as good as a true commuter car. It is pretty fast but not as fast as a real sports car. The interior is excellent, same quality as an Audi. The handling is excellent. Overall it's probably the best mix of fun and practicality you'll find in a car. There's a reason why this car has such a strong following. Once you've driven it, you understand
If you don't care at all about the sports car qualities, get an Impreza. If you care at all about having a fun car, get the GTI. The decision depends on what you're looking for in a car.
Also the GTI is not unreliable despite what the clueless people in this thread are telling you. Unlike some other VW cars that are manufactured in Mexico, the GTI is shipped from Germany and they are very well built.
+1
I have a 2008 GTI with 78,000 miles bought new. I commute 50 miles per day on windy back roads and highway. I average 30-31 MPG on a tank in summer. 28-29 MPG in winter. I have gotten up to 36 MPG on my commute in the summer.
It went to the dealer once after I bought it because the radio died. They replaced a fuse behind the radio under warranty. Its never been back. I replaced the reverse light switch on the transmission myself this winter. There are a few squeaks and rattles in the interior. They supposedly fixed this on the current gen cars.
My wife drives a 2011 VW Tiguan she bought used. Hasn't required any dealer visits yet.
What I posted above are just facts. I don't work for VW, just trying to temper some of the opinions in this thread with real numbers and experiences.
I love the R, if price is no concern, I pick one out tomorrow, and my search is over. But........
Today I looked at both Impreza's and GTI's, and basically I am looking at practical versus sexy, AWD versus acceleration, so, yes, comparing an Impreza to a GTI is not exactly a fair comparison, but then factoring fuel mileage and price, the goal is to find the right blend of give and take and be happy to settle for an acceptable combination of all the features available.
Quite honestly, I cannot get enthusiastic about the Impreza, and I'm trying to. But it is simply not there. If the battle was between a Golf and an Impreza, we'd be talking about a level playing field. But the GTI is clearly not similar in most respects to the Impreza.
Also, used VW's have great resale value, and I am not considering (anymore) saving a few grand for a vehicle that already has 15 to 30K miles on it. I will be splitting my driving (to work, anyway) between a work car, truck, and whatever I purchase, so I plan on keeping the miles low.
And forget the Detroit wheels, I don't like them, I'm going to opt for the Laguna wheels
I love Ramen noodles....
Your comparing a basic economy car to a sports car built on an economy car chassis. Certainly, as you see, this is not apples to apples.
Get what you like, and what you want. If you settle (and that sounds like what the impeza would be for you), your not going to be satisfied with the car.
I wouldn't let late model used miles scare you away. If your not driving a ton, a car with 15K miles vs new is next to nothing in an age when cars will routinely last 150K plus.
Anyway, get what you like, within what you can afford. It stinks to have a car you do not like, and it stinks to be car poor too.
I average 30-31 MPG on a tank in summer. 28-29 MPG in winter. I have gotten up to 36 MPG on my commute in the summer.
My 2012 GTI usually sees similar averages on my commute. In the warmer seasons it's usually around 32mpg, in the colder seasons its usually around 30mpg. The worst I've seen this winter was 28mpg.
The term you guys are looking for is "hot hatch." Unfortunately, most hot hatches tend to be manual-only, like the Focus ST, and the Mazdaspeed 3. The WRX used to offer an automatic option, but no longer. The VW GTI is a rare exception but there just aren't all that many options in the segment without a clutch pedal.
The term you guys are looking for is "hot hatch." Unfortunately, most hot hatches tend to be manual-only, like the Focus ST, and the Mazdaspeed 3. The WRX used to offer an automatic option, but no longer. The VW GTI is a rare exception but there just aren't all that many options in the segment without a clutch pedal.
Lancer Ralliart also offers automatic. And both the Lancer and GTI are dual clutch auto's, not traditional autos which makes a big difference.
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which comes from the rear main seal area...as such, it will simply leak a little bit of oil till I get rid of this car in another 5 years. Some components are starting to break, but it's as a result of age more than anything else. 
The exhaust note from that car is pure sexiness on an almost exotic level, plus AWD, golf body, made in germany, and automatic only...Hey, it sounds like the R32 was made for you 
My youngest kid lived through college with Top Ramen, crashing free food events, and a $400 GTI w/ 300k miles. (now a GTD)
