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Old 03-26-2013, 02:16 PM
 
1,866 posts, read 3,011,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
A person with all-seasons and AWD is much better off than someone with FWD and all-season tires. There is absolutely no comparison in terms of getting going from a stop and maintaining traction once underway. An AWD car will pull right out of a snowed-in parking spot that the FWD owner will spend 20 minutes shoveling out of. In fact when it comes to getting going from a standstill, I'd even put AWD with fairly new all-seasons in front of FWD with snow tires. Of course cornering and stopping ability is another story, there obviously the FWD with snow tires will perform substantially better than AWD with all-seasons.

[RANT]
I too have done many snow-belt winters (some in Wisconsin) with dozens of cars -- RWD, FWD, and AWD. And while you can "get by" with all-seasons, snow tires can sometimes make the difference between whether you can get somewhere or have to wait for the snow trucks; it can make the difference between getting up a slight incline or getting stuck; it can make the difference between avoiding an accident or ending up in one, or in a ditch trying to avoid one.

I used to "get by" on all-seasons until I decided one year I wanted performance summer tires on a car that had a chassis setup designed to take full advantage of them. So my interest in snow tires wasn't really that I wanted snow tires but that it was necessary to put the summer tires away for the season. Now that I've had a chance to drive on snow tires in winter, I'm never going back to all-seasons unless I move far enough south that snow tires aren't useful.

Just this weekend we got snowed in at my MIL's house when a freak snowstorm dumped 14 inches on central Illinois. I had every confidence that my snow-tire-equipped FWD car could get us home. But what I saw while driving a 4-mile "test circuit" on the local interstates to test that theory was positively harrowing. In just that 4 miles I saw no fewer than 9 cars in various ditches and medians and personally watched 2 of their drivers put 'em in there -- drivers who no doubt believed they could "get by" on their all-seasons. Among the other 7 was a Subaru whose owner almost certainly believed that AWD alone was like magic pixie dust and that adding snow tires would be "overkill." The off-ramp I used to get off and get back to my MIL's place had an incline just steep enough that two cars with all-seasons couldn't make it up the ramp and at least one other barely did. Myself with my snow tires and the Jeep in front of me were the only two that didn't struggle to make it.

The last straw was witnessing a thoroughly avoidable accident when a pickup truck pulling out of a gas station o fishtailed his truck right in front of me and ended up sideways across both northbound lanes. I was able to stop in plenty of time. The Saturn next to me with all-season tires... wasn't. The accident didn't look serious enough to cause any injuries but at least two people's days were ruined when snow tires probably would have made for a different outcome.

So after my short stint around town and on the nearby interstates, it was an easy decision to wait it out until the highways were cleared off -- not because my FWD car with snow tires wasn't up to the task, but because there were too many people driving like proper imbeciles believing they'd "never have any problems" on their all-seasons.
[/RANT]
This. My wifes Camry has all seasons on it, and while it does ok in light snow, it can't touch the performance of either of my Jeeps. My Cherokee was a normal 4x4 and was a beast in snow with all terrains on it - you couldn't stop it. It took a foot of snow like it wasn't even there. My new Grand Cherokee is AWD. Has all seasons on it now and it's not bad at all, but it'll still get a set of all terrains. I haven't had a deep snow yet to test it's prowess, but I expect it'll do just fine.

I've seen many a FWD driver swear their car is just as good as my Jeep and wind up stuck hard and going nowhere. Many FWD drivers also don't realize that ground clearance makes a huge difference in how good their vehicle will do in snow. If you're so low that you plow snow, stay out of it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:33 PM
 
458 posts, read 1,110,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
And if you're implying a Civic or Sentra or equivalent FWD car would have also just pulled right out, that's my cue that you're FOS and arguing just to argue.
I didn't say that now did I? Yea the STI went through the drift, but that also wouldn't be close to a 20 minute shovel job to get a car out of there.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:35 PM
 
458 posts, read 1,110,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReblTeen84 View Post
This. My wifes Camry has all seasons on it, and while it does ok in light snow, it can't touch the performance of either of my Jeeps. My Cherokee was a normal 4x4 and was a beast in snow with all terrains on it - you couldn't stop it. It took a foot of snow like it wasn't even there. My new Grand Cherokee is AWD. Has all seasons on it now and it's not bad at all, but it'll still get a set of all terrains. I haven't had a deep snow yet to test it's prowess, but I expect it'll do just fine.
A Jeep has a different profile than a sedan which is actually even more helpful in the snow than AWD is once you get going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReblTeen84 View Post
I've seen many a FWD driver swear their car is just as good as my Jeep and wind up stuck hard and going nowhere. Many FWD drivers also don't realize that ground clearance makes a huge difference in how good their vehicle will do in snow. If you're so low that you plow snow, stay out of it.
That's just plain stupidity on their part lol.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Long Island
9,457 posts, read 14,238,584 times
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before anyone gets too crazy about the mpg savings idea, bear in mind that my wife has a Sonata rated at 36mpg highway. Her 15 minute commute which is 50% highway nets her a whopping 19mpg and she doesn't have a heavy foot. Bottom line, unless you're doing all highway, mpg numbers mean squat. Because my heavy SUV is getting 15mpg in local traffic only too. Big difference between the 2 cars? No. BUY THE CAR YOU ACTUALLY LIKE.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:50 PM
 
199 posts, read 274,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh71 View Post
before anyone gets too crazy about the mpg savings idea, bear in mind that my wife has a Sonata rated at 36mpg highway. Her 15 minute commute which is 50% highway nets her a whopping 19mpg and she doesn't have a heavy foot. Bottom line, unless you're doing all highway, mpg numbers mean squat. Because my heavy SUV is getting 15mpg in local traffic only too. Big difference between the 2 cars? No. BUY THE CAR YOU ACTUALLY LIKE.
Something has got to be wrong with that Sonata.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Long Island
9,457 posts, read 14,238,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
Something has got to be wrong with that Sonata.
I'm going to post in Hyundai forums and find out how others are doing but so you know, I've done strictly highway in that car before on multiple occasions and got 34mpg no problem. That's why I said "unless you do all highway"...

Last edited by ovi8; 03-26-2013 at 06:14 PM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:45 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
23,314 posts, read 22,053,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packer43064 View Post
Is there anything out there that is all wheel drive that has over 20mpg. Preferably not a truck or suv.
I average 30+ during the summer months in my Audi A4. In the winter, the millage drops for some reason, but way above 20mpg. I can't blame you not wanting a truck or SUV. They are death traps for the morons. They don't handle well, can't brake and maneuver and flip over easy. I never understood why people buy them for some odd false sense of security. If you do own one, please stay in the slow lane and drive them as intended. Slow. Please stay out of the way of the Audi's and BMW's out there. Thanks.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:49 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
23,314 posts, read 22,053,985 times
Reputation: 15214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReblTeen84 View Post
Many FWD drivers also don't realize that ground clearance makes a huge difference in how good their vehicle will do in snow. If you're so low that you plow snow, stay out of it.
I have blown through huge snow drifts in my Audi A4 and it is no big deal. Ground clearance? When do you need that? Once a year for about an hour before the plows hit the road? Please. Considering 95+% of your driving will be on wet or dry pavement, you might want to get and education and realize that you are MUCH better off driving a good car than a backwards SUV that handles horribly and is like driving a brick through the wind. Not to mention how dangerous they are going around bends. You can keep that primitive stuff, but please stay out of my way on twisting roads. You need to go very slow to be safe, unlike myself.

Don't fall into the SUV trap. It is a marketing joke played on Americans.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:53 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
23,314 posts, read 22,053,985 times
Reputation: 15214
I see there is some debate regarding AWD vs. FWD. Lets use a little common sense shall we. Which would you rather drive in the rain? Hydroplaning anyone? Keeping in mind we are talking about advanced cars, not SUVs and certainly not trucks with a horrible weight distribution. Driving a good AWD car with good tires is about as safe as it gets. Probably one of the best examples is an Audi A4 and a BMW 330xi. These vehicles are solid and what I am referring to if you are comparing.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:10 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
28,945 posts, read 48,271,754 times
Reputation: 34975
Specific Terrain and weather are big factors in your choice /need.


Mtns, hills, bridges, gravel vs paved vs chip sealed road surface...
Not all snow is same (some is crunchy and dry (good traction) Some is Heavy and wet.

Pontiac Vibe (Toy matrix) is pretty cheap and good for a small wagon / car. (If you don't want to find and maintain and older Audi.)

Subaru has several 4 cyl models 30+

Of course about anywhere else in the world EXCEPT USA, you could find a 'VW Diesel Golf 'Country'. ~ 38- 44mpg on free cooking oil.
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