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Old 06-11-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,069,075 times
Reputation: 4078

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Quote:
Originally Posted by evergraystate View Post
No because heavier vehicles consume more fuel and coincidentally do more damage to roads. Fuel tax is the only way to make the system fair. Some people just have a personal vendetta against hybrids.
I don't have anything against hybrids or alternative fuel vehicles. I'm quite fond of the Tesla Model S EV yet it weighs 4700lbs and its owners pay less per mile for road repairs than my 3300lbs car. How is that fair? The 2013 Toyota Prius V also weighs 3300lbs yet its owners pay less towards repairs. Some of you are clearly delusional because you seem to think that by purchasing a vehicle with better fuel mileage you also are purchasing a vehicle that floats on air and somehow stresses the infrastructure less than other vehicles of similar weight. If you take one moment to pull your head out of you know where, you'll find that your car still has four wheels and each of them still make contact with the road.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: MO->MI->CA->TX->MA
7,034 posts, read 14,474,847 times
Reputation: 5580
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
I don't have anything against hybrids or alternative fuel vehicles. I'm quite fond of the Tesla Model S EV yet it weighs 4700lbs and its owners pay less per mile for road repairs than my 3300lbs car. How is that fair?
I thought EVs get tax credits from the government anyways.. I'd suppose the government probably had a bigger tax credit in mind but have already accounted for the lower gas tax revenues..
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:16 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,069,075 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
I thought EVs get tax credits from the government anyways.. I'd suppose the government probably had a bigger tax credit in mind but have already accounted for the lower gas tax revenues..
Relatively speaking, a tax credit is a temporary measure. A road use tax is not. We can be fairly certain that once EV's reach a certain ownership threshold, the tax credits will disappear. We can also be fairly certain that our commuting infrastructure will continue to decay and will continue to be in a constant state of repair.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: MO->MI->CA->TX->MA
7,034 posts, read 14,474,847 times
Reputation: 5580
My proposal:

Scrap the gas tax.

Every car has to pay a Mileage tax to renew its registration.

This tax is based on how much "damage" the car does to the roads based on annual miles driven of 30,000 and its weight.

If you drive less than 30,000 miles a year and wish to pay less road tax, then you'll need to install a tracking device. If you don't want your privacy violated, then you pay taxes based on 30,000 miles/year of driving.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,069,075 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
My proposal:

Scrap the gas tax.

Every car has to pay a Mileage tax to renew its registration.

This tax is based on how much "damage" the car does to the roads based on annual miles driven of 30,000 and its weight.

If you drive less than 30,000 miles a year and wish to pay less road tax, then you'll need to install a tracking device. If you don't want your privacy violated, then you pay taxes based on 30,000 miles/year of driving.
I too think this would be the ideal method. It is the fairest option for the majority of drivers. Vehicle weight and mileage driven are the two vehicle specific pieces of data that are needed to fairly calculate the amount of wear inflicted.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:34 AM
 
2,341 posts, read 12,037,754 times
Reputation: 2040
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
I see where the government is losing tax dollars because the people using electric cars and hybrids are not buying gas . The solution is to make them pay an extra fee to make up for the lost revenue,,,I guess getting a hybrid to save money isnt such a good idea after all .It is crazy you would think they would want to encourage people to seek alternate fuels but if it is going to cost them extra whats the point...Thanks Obama
I wouldn't be surprised if, in the fairly near future, the government begins to tax us based on miles driven, and the weight of the vehicle.

And in a way, it'd make perfect sense to do that.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,228 posts, read 15,282,410 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
My proposal:

Scrap the gas tax.

Every car has to pay a Mileage tax to renew its registration.

This tax is based on how much "damage" the car does to the roads based on annual miles driven of 30,000 and its weight.

If you drive less than 30,000 miles a year and wish to pay less road tax, then you'll need to install a tracking device. If you don't want your privacy violated, then you pay taxes based on 30,000 miles/year of driving.
The average mileage that Americans drive is about 15k miles per year, which is why leases tend to be based on 12k miles/year.

I'd have no problem scrapping the gas tax and going to a strictly mileage based tax, adding weight in with the calcualtions (no reason a Miata owner should pay as much on road tax as a 760Li).

The only issue is, the gas tiax is almost invisible, as you simply pay for it in tiny increments when you buy gas. The mileage tax would end up being a rather large lump sum annually, which can hit a budget pretty hard, even if you "save" for it each year. Imagine renewing your registration and paying an extra $1000 over what you pay now... And imagine paying that much every year for a car that only cost you that much to start with. Wonder how our buddy StealthRabbit with the biodiesel cars woudl like that?
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,069,075 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
The average mileage that Americans drive is about 15k miles per year, which is why leases tend to be based on 12k miles/year.

I'd have no problem scrapping the gas tax and going to a strictly mileage based tax, adding weight in with the calcualtions (no reason a Miata owner should pay as much on road tax as a 760Li).

The only issue is, the gas tiax is almost invisible, as you simply pay for it in tiny increments when you buy gas. The mileage tax would end up being a rather large lump sum annually, which can hit a budget pretty hard, even if you "save" for it each year. Imagine renewing your registration and paying an extra $1000 over what you pay now... And imagine paying that much every year for a car that only cost you that much to start with. Wonder how our buddy StealthRabbit with the biodiesel cars woudl like that?
They could allow you to pay towards an estimate of your annual bill and give you credit for overpayment. Since vehicle weight is a static figure and you would generally have a good idea of annual mileage driven, it would be easy to estimate how much I should pay towards my road use tax every month.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:50 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 6,050,928 times
Reputation: 16753
I look forward to elimination of the gas tax so fuel prices will drop SO MUCH because gas companies certainly won't float prices upward since we've been used to paying more with the tax. All of a sudden, gasoline prices will drop maybe fifty cents a gallon, JUST LIKE THAT. And that will compensate for the new road tax which would be payable starting at dollar-zero.

Not a sarcasm emoticon big enough...

Oh yeah, what about the trucking lobby? Even the worst 4000# personal vehicle does a miniscule amount of so-called wear and tear on roads compared to a commercial T-T.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,069,075 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
I look forward to elimination of the gas tax so fuel prices will drop SO MUCH because gas companies certainly won't float prices upward since we've been used to paying more with the tax. All of a sudden, gasoline prices will drop maybe fifty cents a gallon, JUST LIKE THAT. And that will compensate for the new road tax which would be payable starting at dollar-zero.

Not a sarcasm emoticon big enough...

Oh yeah, what about the trucking lobby? Even the worst 4000# personal vehicle does a miniscule amount of so-called wear and tear on roads compared to a commercial T-T.
Well no one said it was going to be easy because it is a large project with plenty of ill willed opposition.
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