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They do get better MPG, than the older 4-speed. But, will they last as long? I liked the old manual
trans. It never went out. There are not many other around anymore. In the past, when cars were
made lighter to save gas, that did not work out so well. So, will this time be different?
If you are talking about the CVT transmission, I hate them. I don't regard them as a "real" transmission to be perfectly blunt. The fact is that some of the premier brands are going as high as a nine speed "conventional" automatic. My cars have six speed automatics and I like them just fine. I've driven another brand with a CVT and it's not for me. But not everyone agrees with me.
...Still, CVTs are having a tough time breaking into the market. It turns out that many drivers don’t like the loud and strange noise of their car’s engine revving wildly. Many drivers liken the sound, and the feeling, to that of a slipping clutch. Additionally, CVTs are usually less likely to be paired with higher horsepower, or higher torque engines....(snip)
...Oh, and lest you fret about the complexity (and potential for future foreclosure-inducing repair/rebuild costs) of these modern eight- and nine-speed automatic transmissions, remember: They're saving you from the CVT. For that alone, we extend a hearty welcome and “thank you.”(snip)
It goes on to say that GM and Ford are collaborating on nine and 10 speed automatics. Apparently they don't think too highly of the CVT.
As an aside the "dual clutch" automatics are another breed altogether. I had this one in a Ford Fiesta. It takes some getting used to but it will yield significant fuel economy.
You indicated that you liked the manual transmission. I have driven the six speed manual in the Chevy Cruze and Sonic. They are easy to shift and should yield excellent fuel economy if you like to shift. Most people don't, however. It had been some time since I drove a manual but they were actually a lot of fun to drive.
But actually, I must disagree with you one one point. Manual transmissions and their clutches can cause more problems than do automatics. In fact, for heavy duty truck use, the automatics with their torque converters are more durable than are manuals. It is possible to slip the clutch under extreme load and burn them up necessitating an expensive repair. For typical automobile use, however, one probably won't need a clutch inside of 100K miles. But they will eventually wear out. That's not to say automatics won't eventually fail but it is more likely than not due to seals drying out and not providing the necessary hydraulic pressures inside the transmission. But that takes a good long while.
My $0.02.
Last edited by rmissourimule; 08-17-2013 at 05:04 PM..
I have a CVT II and 2.0 in my 2011 Caliber, so far 56000 on it no problems. Gas mileage 35 mpg on highway trips.( Salisbury to upstate NY) and 30 mpg in local traffic, not city more like mixed traffic.
The simple answer is that anything that is more complex, is more likely to have some part of it fail. If you've got an old 4 spd transmission with 100 individual parts to it, vs a modern 8 speed with 500 parts to it... Obviously the chances of failure are greater on the newer tranny, there's just more opportunity for something to go wrong.
That being said, I personally think 6 speeds is all most cars will ever really need, anything over that is just silly. The reason for that is that to actually NEED that many speeds, the car needs to have a VERY high top speed to make those extra gear ratios significantly more efficient than a transmission with a few less gears. 8 speed vs 6 speed? You might see 2-3% better fuel efficiency from the transmission. Maybe.
On sports cars that can go 180mph or more, then sure, having more gears to take advantage of the power band is useful. But on the vast majority of commuter cars, SUV's, etc... these new transmissions are overkill and unnecessary.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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I hope they last longer than the normal automatics. I have had many manual transmission vehicles and only one required service, synchros at 138,000 miles and that was a 1973. The rest would last as long as I had the vehicle, maybe one clutch at about 110-120k. Currently I have a 1997 Escort and just did the first clutch at 150k. On the other hand, I have had to rebuild the following automatics that died:
1990 Bronco at 130k
1996 4Runner at 90k
2002 Liberty at 88k
In all 3 cases they had regular maintenance by a local transmission shop.
I hope they last longer than the normal automatics. I have had many manual transmission vehicles and only one required service, synchros at 138,000 miles and that was a 1973. The rest would last as long as I had the vehicle, maybe one clutch at about 110-120k. Currently I have a 1997 Escort and just did the first clutch at 150k. On the other hand, I have had to rebuild the following automatics that died:
1990 Bronco at 130k
1996 4Runner at 90k
2002 Liberty at 88k
In all 3 cases they had regular maintenance by a local transmission shop.
A transmission shop IMO is one of the last places I’d have a transmission serviced. There’s no money in a basic trans service, thus the devious incentive to bogger things up.
I agree about the transmission shops. I would do this at the dealer only. As an aside, in the Hyundai line (that I own), the fix is to replace the transmission. Everything is inside the transmission itself including the electronics and the dealers are not supposed to attempt to repair. I see that as becoming the norm as the chances for something being missed or a speck of dirt or other is too great on such a complex device. There is no way I would even think of using a "transmission shop." This is a dealer fix even if it is more expensive.
As to the comment about the number of speeds, I disagree. The more gears the better the fuel economy as it is very desirable for the engine to operate in its optimum RPM range. As I recall, over the road rigs might have 15 forward gears and many of them are now automatic transmissions as well.
The only place I don't like automatic transmissions is on motorcycles. They do have them but to my knowledge are not well regarded. The last thing a motorcyclist normally concerns themselves with is fuel economy as most know. And most motorcycles rack up very few actual miles.
The simple answer is that anything that is more complex, is more likely to have some part of it fail. If you've got an old 4 spd transmission with 100 individual parts to it, vs a modern 8 speed with 500 parts to it... Obviously the chances of failure are greater on the newer tranny, there's just more opportunity for something to go wrong.
That being said, I personally think 6 speeds is all most cars will ever really need, anything over that is just silly. The reason for that is that to actually NEED that many speeds, the car needs to have a VERY high top speed to make those extra gear ratios significantly more efficient than a transmission with a few less gears. 8 speed vs 6 speed? You might see 2-3% better fuel efficiency from the transmission. Maybe.
On sports cars that can go 180mph or more, then sure, having more gears to take advantage of the power band is useful. But on the vast majority of commuter cars, SUV's, etc... these new transmissions are overkill and unnecessary.
In the current Sonata/Optima, the 6spd auto has something like 56 fewer parts than the old 5spd auto, and even weighs less. Not sure how they accomplished that.
A transmission shop IMO is one of the last places I’d have a transmission serviced. There’s no money in a basic trans service, thus the devious incentive to bogger things up.
As to the comment about the number of speeds, I disagree. The more gears the better the fuel economy as it is very desirable for the engine to operate in its optimum RPM range. As I recall, over the road rigs might have 15 forward gears and many of them are now automatic transmissions as well.
That's not a valid comparison at all. Big rig trucks have extremely low rpm limits, and they are pulling tons of weight. Some of them redline around 2k rpm... which is where most cars are just starting to rev up, to a limit of 6-9k. They need those extra gears to be able to reach 70mph.
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