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Old 09-16-2013, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Denver
3,250 posts, read 8,244,233 times
Reputation: 3209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainGuy74 View Post
Here is the biggest irony....

Prices can reach $10 a gallon and it wouldn't affect me at all.
It sucks to be poor...
You could ride a bike and $10 a gallon will make us all poor. If gasoline hits $10 per gallon that means that crude oil is through the roof on value.

Meaning everything you buy has to be delivered it isn't going to be by a electric powered semi truck. It is going to be burning $14 per gallon diesel and you will pay....we will all pay.

And then you try to buy tires for your plug in electric car....wonder how much that would cost with oil prices that high?
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:59 AM
 
2,341 posts, read 10,860,153 times
Reputation: 2040
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainGuy74 View Post
Here is the biggest irony....

Those of us that are affected by fuel prices, the ones that cringe when the prices rise, are the least likely to afford the hybrids and other compact fuel efficient vehicles. I know I could never afford a 25K+ hybrid of electric vehicle even though it would benefit me the most because fuel prices do affect my life.

On the other hand, lets say they make a good electric car that is far superior to anything that uses fuel. No more need to stop at a gas station ever again. Prices can reach $10 a gallon and it wouldn't affect me at all. That type of car would be pretty pricey no doubt. Who could afford such a car? Higher income folks. The irony is that although they could easily afford a $40K+ car the price of gas doesn't really affect them that much anyway because they have the funds to buy it no matter what the price may be.

It sucks to be poor...
The Total Cost of Ownership is something very few people actually understand, or take seriously.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:51 AM
 
19,763 posts, read 9,528,254 times
Reputation: 9403
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw2009 View Post
I mean a car that is typical (aka non-diesel) and VW's best TDI gets only 43...but the gas is also 10% more.
I get 48 in mine.. it's 13 years old though.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Central Mass
3,466 posts, read 3,572,697 times
Reputation: 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by choo_choo_train_lol View Post
92-95 Honda Civic VX gets over 50mpg highway according to EPA rating I think? I wonder why that hasn't been recreated. Too light for proper safety rating maybe? It's really cool how fuel efficiency in cars has been improving a lot in the last few years.
It's not that it's too light. A Lotus Elise weighs 1800 lbs and is safe.
It's that American consumers don't want small cars. The EG hatchback was 200 lbs heavier than a brand new Elise. The new EPA rating for it is 39/49 ( Compare Side-by-Side ). 8th generation Civics (06-11) were split between North America and rest of the world. They got hatchbacks, we didn't. But if we did, they were still 7" longer, 4" wider, 8" taller, and about 600 lbs heavier. Why? Luxury.

People want the moon, even in the cheapest cars. People want very powerful, big engines.

In the UK, toyota sells the Aygo (really, a Citroen/PSA/Toyota joint venture). With the base 1.0L I3 gas engine, it get 65.7 MPG according to the EU (different test than the EPA, with different units - same units would be 55 US MPG).
The iQ, which is sold here as a Scion with a bigger engine, gets 64.2 MPG (little less than 55 US MPG) with that 1.0L.

Everyone makes them for Europe. No one sells them here, because they don't sell.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
872 posts, read 1,902,201 times
Reputation: 565
Why do you need a 25000+ car to get 30-35 mpg? Why not go by a 2007 or 2008 Toyota corolla (or similar) for 10,000 (or less) and get the same thing.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:39 AM
 
359 posts, read 682,549 times
Reputation: 430
A few steps that companies will be taking to "reach" 50 mpg.

1) Lower the weight considerably
This is hard to do, without using "exotic" / expensive material of construction.


2) Forced induction (Turbo) on smaller engines (3 cyl / 4 cyl)
This (small engine) typically leads to slight roughness not acceptable / found in mid size or higher luxury cars.


3) Aerodynamics
This fights directly with the pedestrian crash standards as well as asthetics and practical value of the car.


The New E250 Diesel achieves 45mpg easily. And this can be contributed to the slippery Cd as well highly effcient 4 cyl diesel engines. But couple owners ahve already reported "slight" harshness/ vibration. Not complained - just reported.

Personally I find it amazing how a car which is 4000 lbs and seats 5 comfortable and has a host of luxury assortments achieves 45mpg. Think, if the same engines was in a lighter car (C class), it would give even better mpg numbers.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 13,602,370 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
He has been trying to beat me through MANY Honda's, but recently he bought 2 TDI's and added Grease-kits. He gets as much FREE veggie oil as he wants from a commercial veggie hauler who has to 100% clean tank trucks between loads.
I love veggiie oil diesels, but, if everyone started using them, the oil would not be free anymore. Supply and demand, and all that. So watch out how much you want to promote them, as the cheap resources you enjoy now will not be free or cheap anymore if they become popular...

Quote:
BTW. You can find these things (VW Diesels) FREE in your neighbor's brier patch! I have gotten several that way and have 3 in my 'sights' at the moment.
One of my favorite things about when I was living in Washington state was how cheap older used cars remained, including free. Over here on the east coast, they've all rusted away, or if they haven't then people want thousands for non-running, but rust free examples. (or nearly rust free examples).
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Long Island
9,462 posts, read 14,351,973 times
Reputation: 5841
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainGuy74 View Post
On the other hand, lets say they make a good electric car that is far superior to anything that uses fuel. No more need to stop at a gas station ever again. Prices can reach $10 a gallon and it wouldn't affect me at all. That type of car would be pretty pricey no doubt. Who could afford such a car? Higher income folks. The irony is that although they could easily afford a $40K+ car the price of gas doesn't really affect them that much anyway because they have the funds to buy it no matter what the price may be.

It sucks to be poor...
The mileage range on a single charge for electric cars still makes them pretty impractical. Not to mention the lack of charging stations and the time it takes to charge. Even if the rich had money for it - a good solution doesn't truly exist yet.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 13,602,370 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by rh71 View Post
The mileage range on a single charge for electric cars still makes them pretty impractical. Not to mention the lack of charging stations and the time it takes to charge. Even if the rich had money for it - a good solution doesn't truly exist yet.
That's why I like my Volt. It uses electricity for dirt cheap day in and day out for the commute and errand running, but has the gas generator to run on for long trips (like the 900 mile round trip up to central CT and back I took last month).

I'm not rich, but it costs me less to own it than it did to own the Mustang GT I traded in on it, and about the same to own as my paid off cheap BMW I had before that. It costs less to own than my wife's MINI Cooper (which is why we may in fact replace her MINI with a pure electric like a Leaf or a Focus electric).
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:22 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
29,299 posts, read 48,803,525 times
Reputation: 35659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
I love veggiie oil diesels, but, if everyone started using them, the oil would not be free anymore. Supply and demand, and all that. So watch out how much you want to promote them, as the cheap resources you enjoy now will not be free or cheap anymore if they become popular...

....
Not to worry, there are may 'Choices' to fuel a 'conventional' diesel. I hope to be growing my own algae by then. It is VERY ez to grow, just not so ez to harvest the oil (at the moment).

The 'Market' will provide, but those who think 'conventionally' will have to pay market price. I have several friends who are A&P mechanics and been burning free - discarded Jet A for 30+ yrs, they have NEVER bought any fuel except on trips. (and gas (ick) for their lawnmower and chainsaw).

When I need a cheap rust free car... I go to TX, AZ, or NM. $89 flight and fuel to get home. And a nice weekend road trip.
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