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That sounds to me like your clutch is slipping, and will need to be adjusted - or possibly replaced.
Also, you need to see what trouble codes it's throwing, causing the CEL to illuminate. You can have a shop check for codes, or you can go to an auto parts store and have them hook up their scanner.
This car, like the great majority of modern cars with manual transmission, has a self-adjusting clutch. There is an adjustment at the clutch pedal, but that is not to compensate for wear of the clutch disc, but it is a one-time setup when the clutch master cylinder is installed.
Taking the car to have code(s) read could be helpful or could result in a lot of parts associated with the code(s)being replaced with considerable expense and to no avail.
A simple code read is frequently referred to as a diagnostic, but that is rarely the case.
An evaporative emissions code (problem in fuel tank vapor containment) can be caused by a loose or leaking gas cap. It can also be caused by an intermittently leaking or sticking solenoid valve, it can be caused by a leaking fitting on top of the gas tank. AutoZone will provide customers with a generic list of possible causes for a specific fault code. The list helps AZ sell parts but other than that it is not worth much. A p0441 evaporative emissions code (small leak) can require a couple of hours of testing and searching using a full-fledged scan tool, ($3000 + up in cost as opposed to an AZ $39 code reader), and a smoke machine before the leak is located.
Your clutch is slipping. Fix the clutch and check the bad sensor. Most likely a O2sensor.
You are right about the clutch slipping.
How do you know it has a "bad sensor?" OBDII lights can be caused by many things besides failed sensors: leaking gas cap, bad fuel tank filler neck, bad vacuum solenoid valve, low oil level or other oil pressure issue causing problem with variable valve timing, cracked vacuum line or other vacuum leak, bad ignition coil, bad spark plug, uneven engine compression, thermostat stuck open, clogged exhaust gas recirculation passage, wiring harness fault, and many, many more.
We have a Honda in the shop now that occasionally sets a check engine light when there is an abnormally hot day in the winter. Winter fuel is blended to be more volatile than summer fuel for ease of starting a cold engine. On an unseasonably hot day, and after the car has been driven and parked about 20 minutes, fuel boils in the injector rail on top of the engine. When the car is restarted it sets codes before the fuel vapor is purged by fresh liquid fuel. Usually it sets misfire codes, but this last time it set a code for an abnormal upstream oxygen sensor reading. Sensors reports the problem, but sensors are not what is bad. This is a 2000 Honda Accord V6. There is a factory service bulletin about this problem -- well known to any decent Honda mechanic.
Since they appear to have driven your car when they changed your oil and brakes, they more than likely noted a slipping clutch plate. From what you are describing, it would have been been obvious even to an inexperienced oil-change mechanic. I just installed a clutch kit in a small tractor that only cost me about $150 for parts but I have no idea what the costs for parts and labor are nowadays on an import car. I think $1,000 is going to be fairly close.
Yes, they did drive the car... and it was a mechanic at Skip's Tire & Auto (local chain), so they're not exactly "top experts," but trained/certified beyond oil changes for sure.
When I picked up the car, he said something like "just to let you know, the clutch is really high - so it probably needs to be replaced soon." I guess by HIGH, he meant it is slipping?
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BTW, I had an Accord (1991) and it was one of the best cars I've ever owned over the past 50 years I have been driving. It had an automatic transmission but it would still be running if I had not been run over by a full size Dodge Ram pulling a loaded cattle trailer two years ago.
That's what everyone says, and it's one of the reasons I went with a Honda. But I'll be honest, I haven't liked this car much from the beginning! It is reliable in terms of starting every day, but has never quite given me the smooth ride and "oomph" I like in a (manual) car... it's also had a string of minor problems, from the brakes, clutch, and steering wheel making weird noises, to the windows randomly getting stuck. I'm not very good to my cars, I will admit, but that's precisely why I got what everyone deems the MOST reliable. Oh well; for me, this car has actually lasted longer than most.
Unless it is a V6 it does not have a timing belt but uses a timing chain -- not a maintenance item.
V6 5 speed manuals are rare.
You're right, it is a 4-cylinder. Wish it was a V6, lol!
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It is quite obvious she is describing a badly slipping clutch.
To the original poster: I have been an automotive shop owner for 33 years. Not knowing much about cars, unscrupulous service writers taking advantage of those who don't know much about cars, these are NOT gender specific situations. I could give you examples into next week.
Thanks for your input, and I'll copy down all the technical stuff (most of which is like Greek to me) for when I do take it to a mechanic. I'm really hoping my friend can help me out, not only because of the savings in labor, but also because I trust him 100%.
It might not be a gender-specific thing overall, but as a woman I can tell you they DO try to pull one over on us more often. I've tested the theory, and it seems many mechanics & auto dealers treat women differently. Heck, I've even had men ask if I needed help pumping my gas... the chivalry is noted and appreciated, but definitely not necessary in that case.
How do you know it has a "bad sensor?" OBDII lights can be caused by many things besides failed sensors: leaking gas cap, bad fuel tank filler neck, bad vacuum solenoid valve, low oil level or other oil pressure issue causing problem with variable valve timing, cracked vacuum line or other vacuum leak, bad ignition coil, bad spark plug, uneven engine compression, thermostat stuck open, clogged exhaust gas recirculation passage, wiring harness fault, and many, many more.
We have a Honda in the shop now that occasionally sets a check engine light when there is an abnormally hot day in the winter. Winter fuel is blended to be more volatile than summer fuel for ease of starting a cold engine. On an unseasonably hot day, and after the car has been driven and parked about 20 minutes, fuel boils in the injector rail on top of the engine. When the car is restarted it sets codes before the fuel vapor is purged by fresh liquid fuel. Usually it sets misfire codes, but this last time it set a code for an abnormal upstream oxygen sensor reading. Sensors reports the problem, but sensors are not what is bad. This is a 2000 Honda Accord V6. There is a factory service bulletin about this problem -- well known to any decent Honda mechanic.
Don in Austin
The one sensor in the car that is under the most harsh condition is the O2sensor. Could it be something else. Absolutely Yes. But O2 sensors are wear items. Most mechanic shops can pull the codes fairly easily. Not saying it can't be anything else
You're right, it is a 4-cylinder. Wish it was a V6, lol!
Thanks for your input, and I'll copy down all the technical stuff (most of which is like Greek to me) for when I do take it to a mechanic. I'm really hoping my friend can help me out, not only because of the savings in labor, but also because I trust him 100%.
It might not be a gender-specific thing overall, but as a woman I can tell you they DO try to pull one over on us more often. I've tested the theory, and it seems many mechanics & auto dealers treat women differently. Heck, I've even had men ask if I needed help pumping my gas... the chivalry is noted and appreciated, but definitely not necessary in that case.
I get to see what people have spent elsewhere quite frequently. i see male customers buy just as much unnecessary work as female. A little bit of knowledge combined with male pride that deceives a person into thinking they know more than they actually do sets one up to be taken advantage of -- happens a lot. Check your PM for a link to more on this subject.
Don't let anybody sell you timing belt service for your car!
Taking the car to have code(s) read could be helpful or could result in a lot of parts associated with the code(s)being replaced with considerable expense and to no avail.
A simple code read is frequently referred to as a diagnostic, but that is rarely the case.
An evaporative emissions code (problem in fuel tank vapor containment) can be caused by a loose or leaking gas cap. It can also be caused by an intermittently leaking or sticking solenoid valve, it can be caused by a leaking fitting on top of the gas tank. AutoZone will provide customers with a generic list of possible causes for a specific fault code. The list helps AZ sell parts but other than that it is not worth much. A p0441 evaporative emissions code (small leak) can require a couple of hours of testing and searching using a full-fledged scan tool, ($3000 + up in cost as opposed to an AZ $39 code reader), and a smoke machine before the leak is located.
Don in Austin
A trouble-code is a place to start. For some people, with a bit of mechanical knowledge, it's all they need. For instance, just yesterday I had a family member call me with an OBD2 code on his mid-90s 850 Volvo. PO171 - which is lean burn in bank 1. As you know, that can mean anything from O2 Sensors, to MAF Sensor, to PCV Oil Trap problems, to a vacuum leak. Because it'd be cheapest, I suggested he check vacuum lines on the front of the engine. He got lucky - found one that was broken. It was a cheap fix that potentially saved him big money.
Well, it looks like all the "knowledgeable" guys here have a consensus that the "clutch is slipping" ... hence would need replacement. Personally, I'd stick by my original advice to have the car checked out by a knowledgeable shop ...
and I confess to never having turned a wrench on, much less driven ... a Honda product in the 45+ years I've been in the import auto repair biz. My apologies for having suggested that a timing belt might be a concern since the OP didn't mention which engine was in her car in the first posting and my son has a 2005 Accord that did need a timing belt (on a V-6, as it turns out). As we all know, year/make/model and engine/transmission info is kinda' basic for any meaningful advice. As could be the OP taking the car to any of the box parts stores and getting the codes scanned for free, which could be valuable info rather than a total guess as to what the driveability problems are originating from.
But, here's the rub for the OP ... if all you folk jumping to the conclusion that the clutch is bad, take note that she is in the Bay Area of CA. If the clutch is indeed toast at this time, she's looking at a likely cost at prevailing aftermarket rates in excess of $1,300 (dealer cost even higher!) for a clutch assembly replacement ... assuming that the flywheel is in good condition. With such a low mileage failure on this clutch, it could very well be likely that there is flywheel damage, too ... something not known until the car is apart. I understand that the front subframe has to be dropped for this project, with book time somewhere around 6-7 hours.
For those of you "honest John" techs who beat your chest here about being straight shooters and never charging one second over your realistic actual shop time to accomplish a project at rock bottom labor rates and never charging a penny mark-up over the cost of the parts ... I'll repeat that the car is in the Bay Area of CA. This is a marketplace where FLAT RATE times are gospel, and labor rates at virtually any competent shop are north of $100/hr and shops do mark-up their resale parts. At least from what I'm seeing on-line, a replacement LUK clutch assembly in around $300 from the discounters, so I'll infer that it's a lot more than that at prevailing retail prices from a shop in the Bay Area.
As the OP has pointed out, she's got a damaged car that's not running properly and unlikely to pass the CA emissions test required for her registration renewal. With potentially major repair costs ahead approaching the value of the car, she's way behind the economic curve for this vehicle. Even without knowing the cost of the driveability issues of this car (ie, the CEL on ... don't count on this being a broken vacuum hose, although it would be nice to dream it was such a simple item) in light of the apparently skipped routine maintenance issues ... this car is an economic problem for the OP.
It's a much different marketplace for auto repair/breakdowns there than in many other markets around the USA ... especially foreign to you guys who can operate for very low overhead expense and your biz costs are reasonable. CA retail shop space rental is mind-bogglingly expensive, environmental compliance costs are staggering, labor costs (wages, taxes, UI and WC), biz taxes ... it all adds up to a market far higher in cost than many other places around the USA (I knew of two techs who went out on their own in the area years ago, and their ground rent to sub-lease ONE STALL in a shop was higher than my lease pymt for a 5,000 sq ft with 25 parking space lot and fenced storage yard in a high profile drive-by retail location was in Denver). You guys can pontificate all day long about how she's gonna' get ripped off compared to how little you'd charge to do the work, but she's in the Bay Area, not in your town.
As I suggested in my first post, this car needs a proper diagnosis and repair evaluation for the OP to make an informed economic decision. None of us on this thread can offer anything but a WAG based upon what she's posted as to the extent of those costs. And the OP has already discovered that in her marketplace, no shop will do a diagnostic scan and evaluation for free, it's more like $120+.
Again, you guys can beat your chests all day long about how you'd help her out with a free scan and diagnostic in your shop, but she's not in your shop where you can perform the tests to determine if the clutch is worn out/slipping at this time. Nor can you perform any diagnostic tests or inspection as to the potential failures related to the CEL. Particularly without the codes, you have no idea what's going on, or if it's the simple stuff like a poor gas cap or broken vacuum line. She's in the Bay Area, and the prevailing rates there are a whole different game, even if it's only a simple problem to cure ... and she's got a car which sounds like it has not had routine maintenance.
FWIW, I don't know of any O2 sensor with an unlimited service life ... and many fail in the 60-80,000 mile range, in my experience. With over 100K miles on this car, with likely original components, there's a lot of conjecture to be had about how to get it running right. But on-line, with what we know for sure, it's only WAG's. The OP can't take those to the bank ....
1. YOUR TIMING BELT IS DUE
2. YOUR TIMING BELT IS DUE
3. I was tempted to repeat myself, but your timing belt is due. This is your MAIn concern.
4. Is your parking brake ok? Or, if it is not, slowly drive vehicle bumper agaisnt any solid surface, like light pole, or something, so that it can not move. Wall. Or, simply engage parking brake to full. Start engine and get into 1st gear. Slowly release clutch. If engine stalls - no worries - your clutch is fine. Clutches gone or going bad usually start stinking of burnt long before they actually kaput.
5. Yes, regular maintenance is long due. Plugs, air filter, cabin filter, transmission lubricant. AKA gear oil.
6. Seafoam fuel system two times in a row. As in - do it NOW! Seafoam does short of miracles to neglected cars, as yours was neglected. The way you do it, you buy 2 cans of Seafoam engine additive; buy a suitable narrow funnel that will fit into gas tank filler hole; run low on gas; go to gas station and insert funnel; pour Seafoam in via funnel; remove funnel and fill tank. Do this twice, for better result. Reason being, gas tanl filler tube normally has a bend in it preventing siphoning, and Seafoam will sit in there, if you pour it in AFTER refill.
7. When you will be doing timing belt, make sure you do water pump, tensioner and pulley same time. As it's stupid to get to there again, when pump fails.
Our experience with Japanese clutches is they run well into 140-150 000 miles. Unless driver does not know how clutch and constantly burns it. Btw, on virtually all cars, clutch pedal run is adjustable.
Why would you tell someone to drive up against a wall or pole and let their clutch out to check it's operation? Even though it shouldn't, there is a possibility of that stunt causing the air bags to deploy. You really need to stop giving people really bad automotive advice.
Why would you tell someone to drive up against a wall or pole and let their clutch out to check it's operation? Even though it shouldn't, there is a possibility of that stunt causing the air bags to deploy. You really need to stop giving people really bad automotive advice.
His advice stinks. I guess he didn't read where this is a 4 cylinder with a TIMING CHAIN. And not one out of 20 modern Asian cars have an adjustable clutch. He wants the OP to try to cave in her bumper against a tree. Perhaps he does not know that the bumper skin is painted plastic? The air bags might not deploy, but the bumper will surely suffer damage -- this is not a 55 Chev PU! There is no reason whatsoever why this Honda should be in desperate need of SeaFoam. Driving in a hilly environment, a good driver can wear out a clutch in 100k miles.
Don in Austin
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