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Old 04-13-2014, 07:42 AM
 
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OK, this is about the base engine midsize sedans with FWD. Even though these cars have generally the same size engine and horsepower, the Japanese sedans are quicker to 60 and get better fuel economy and smoother running. Why?
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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I do not agree I think the last and current Gen Ford Fusion(s)are a very worthy competitor to the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry in the mid-size market
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:01 AM
 
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OP, you likely need to provide some charts and hard data to support your claim, you you'll be getting bs responses based on patriotism and hearsay.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Prosper
6,255 posts, read 17,091,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
OK, this is about the base engine midsize sedans with FWD. Even though these cars have generally the same size engine and horsepower, the Japanese sedans are quicker to 60 and get better fuel economy and smoother running. Why?
I don't know if that's really the truth these days, cars from domestic brands are providing similar fuel economy and are competitive in acceleration numbers.

In the past though, yes, this was true. Japanese brands moved to 5 and six speed automatic transmissions a lot sooner than the Big Three did, and that made them faster and get better gas mileage than the 4 spd auto cars that we were still producing.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:20 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,830,354 times
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OP do oyu have real proof of your claims? the ford fusion is the equal of any similar japanese car on the market in erms of performance and fuel economy, as is its lincoln counter part. and i believe that gm and chrysler both have cars that are also on equal terms with the japanese cars. and dont be bringing numbers like the camry does 0-60 in 6.2 seconds compared to the fusion doing it in 6.4 seconds and saying the camery is obviously quicker, as those tiems are virtually identical.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:34 AM
 
Location: San Francisco born/raised - Las Vegas
2,821 posts, read 2,109,454 times
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Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
OP, you likely need to provide some charts and hard data to support your claim, you you'll be getting bs responses based on patriotism and hearsay.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,167,133 times
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
OP do oyu have real proof of your claims? the ford fusion is the equal of any similar japanese car on the market in erms of performance and fuel economy, as is its lincoln counter part. and i believe that gm and chrysler both have cars that are also on equal terms with the japanese cars. and dont be bringing numbers like the camry does 0-60 in 6.2 seconds compared to the fusion doing it in 6.4 seconds and saying the camery is obviously quicker, as those tiems are virtually identical.
The current Ford cars with 4 cylinder Ecoboost engines are inferior in HP, actual performance, and actual fuel economy (ignore EPA ratings) compared to non-turbo Hondas.

Every road test shows this.

Ford Fusion
1.5L Ecoboost 181 hp (regular fuel), 24 MPG 9.2 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports
2.0L Ecoboost 231 hp (regular fuel) 22 MPG, 7.4 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports

Honda Accord
2.4L I4 185 hp 30 MPG 7.7 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports
3.5L V6 278 hp 26 MPG 6.3 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports

Other road tests from enthusiast magazines show faster times, but the Honda is always much faster. Look at fuel economy in the real world from www.fuelly.com and the Ford Ecoboost engines are clearly less efficient.

The Mazda6 4 cylinder is even better.

Ford's engines show that small displacement turbo is not the way to go, at least not now. They bring down otherwise fine cars.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:46 PM
 
5,681 posts, read 5,153,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
OK, this is about the base engine midsize sedans with FWD. Even though these cars have generally the same size engine and horsepower, the Japanese sedans are quicker to 60 and get better fuel economy and smoother running. Why?
Mind sharing with us this information?
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:48 PM
 
5,681 posts, read 5,153,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
OP, you likely need to provide some charts and hard data to support your claim, you you'll be getting bs responses based on patriotism and hearsay.
This.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:53 PM
 
5,681 posts, read 5,153,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
The current Ford cars with 4 cylinder Ecoboost engines are inferior in HP, actual performance, and actual fuel economy (ignore EPA ratings) compared to non-turbo Hondas.

Every road test shows this.

Ford Fusion
1.5L Ecoboost 181 hp (regular fuel), 24 MPG 9.2 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports
2.0L Ecoboost 231 hp (regular fuel) 22 MPG, 7.4 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports

Honda Accord
2.4L I4 185 hp 30 MPG 7.7 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports
3.5L V6 278 hp 26 MPG 6.3 secs 0-60 Consumer Reports

Other road tests from enthusiast magazines show faster times, but the Honda is always much faster. Look at fuel economy in the real world from www.fuelly.com and the Ford Ecoboost engines are clearly less efficient.

The Mazda6 4 cylinder is even better.

Ford's engines show that small displacement turbo is not the way to go, at least not now. They bring down otherwise fine cars.
Of course Honda will be faster - it's more powerful, especially the 6-cylinder.

From having driven the 1.5L Fusion, I can tell you that the CR 0-60 number is grossly misstated. It's around 8 seconds. 24 MPG is also BS. I had a Focus ST with the same 2.0L as in the Fusion Titanium and I routinely saw 23-24 MPG while keeping my foot firmly planted on the accelerator. The 1.5L Fusion gets at least 27 MPG in real-world driving.

It's true that the first-gen Ecoboost engines aren't the end-all, be-all, but they will get better. Mazda has shown how innovative technology can deliver truly amazing results, no argument there. Likewise, Ford will figure it out with the next generation of EB. Also, the Fusion handles amazingly well in comparison with the Camry and Accord.
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