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Thanks guys! A lot of what you are saying sounds like stuff they were trying to tell me this morning (High side pressure, etc) I think they know their stuff...but trying to figure out how to interpret it for me, esp when they know I'm on a shoestring, is harder for them.
1) The fact that the A/C system satisfactorially cools at all and repeatedly comes back on to cool says that there is a refrigerant charge in the system and that there is no "major leak" of refrigerant. It simply doesn't replenish itself after stopping the refrigeration for awhile. I'd rule out a refrigerant problem at this time. Why your shop recharged the system is not apparently justified at this time, nor is the $50 charge to have done so; ie, they should have been able to put their test gauge set on the system and verify what the high and low side operating pressures were when the system was cooling. As well, I'd rule out an internal A/C system moisture problem freezing up an expansion valve in view of the replaced refrigerant.
2) The A/C belt in this car drives the A/C only, IIRC. It doesn't drive the alt or the power steering, so a failing belt on the A/C compressor is unique to the A/C. However, it's highly unlikely that the belt slips to a point of not driving the A/C compressor without any noise from the compressor, belt, or tensioner pulley and then starts driving the compressor again. I'd rule out drive belt failure at this time.
3) There is a low pressure sensor in the A/C system which protects the compressor and system if there's no or way too little refrigerant. You cannot damage the A/C compressor in this car by having "too low" or "no" refrigerant in the system because the mechanical portions of the A/C system will be shut down by the sensor.
4) Are you hearing the auxilliary cooling fans come on when you are running the A/C system? They are important for the airflow through the condensor coil in front of the radiator. If they are not coming on, there may be an aux fan power supply or relay problem with the car. The fans should come on anytime the A/C compressor is running. If they don't, the A/C system is likely to run too much pressure on the high side and there is a safety sensor for that condition. It will kick out the mechanical system to protect it in much the same way that the low pressure sensor kicks out the system if there's too little refrigerant to work properly.
5) What's left is down to control system problems; ie, the A/C temp control at the dash has an intermittent power or sense function to engage the compressor clutch; or the compressor clutch is failing (again, you'd typically hear a mechanical noise if this was the case, or your shop guys should have inspected the clutch for signs of heat damage/slipping or looseness of the assembly). Another possibility is an expansion valve intermittent failure. Or, as mentioned above, there is the potential that the low pressure or high pressure safety sensors are failing or have intermittent wiring connectivity to them so they needlessly cut out the system.
6) At this point, I think your regular shop guys don't know what they're doing with an A/C system. What you've described as a "diagnosis and repair estimate" from your regular shop is pure BS. They don't know what's wrong with your car at this time.
IMO, you'd do better to seek out an independent auto A/C service specialist who can properly diagnose the system failure.
PS: NO, you don't get air mixed in with the refrigerant in a sealed system that continues to deliver cold air. If the system has a refrigerant leak to the point where the low pressure sensor kicks out the refrigation system, then ultimately air will be able to enter the system. But you will not get any cooling from that because the air pressure is too low for the low pressure sensor to engage the A/C clutch.
It doesn't seem like it, but my sister has a Forrester of about the same vintage and their AC is out as well, so it may be a common issue on that model.
If that's really all that's wrong with the car and you don't have any great desire to upgrade anyway, I'd go to the bank and see if they'll loan you the money to fix it for a year, either as a signature loan or against the car. ~$70/month for a year to keep a car that you like and is otherwise in good shape seems better than ~$300/month for 3-4 years for a used car that may develop issues of its own before you have it paid off.
And I know you said you didn't want to hear it, but average summer temps in my part of Iowa are within a couple of degrees of the warmers areas of NC and I managed a 40 mile daily commute last summer with no AC. It's not fun, but it's not the end of the world either.
Lastly, and I know that you won't want to hear this either, if your finances are so tight that you can't afford an $800 car repair, cutting down on the trips to the beach might be a prudent idea, at least until you can save some "rainy day" money.
Good thoughts. I do have a home equity line that would gladly cover the AC, I'm just tired of constantly nearing the point of paying it off completely and then having another expense pop up. Last month it was possums, the month before it was tires for the teen's car, the month before that it was medical expenses.....
My mom buys my gas when I drive 200 miles to her house, and for us, a day trip to the beach is likely to be our only vacation.
(If her dad is out of town, we can take the teen's car. What he doesn't know won't hurt him)
I agree that is NOT too many miles for AC to work. My Mustang was working just great with only a few O-rings replaced until I had an incident at about 220,000 miles that caused the system to evacuate very quickly. After than, I spent about $700 in parts to replace everything on the car, did the labor myself, and then charged it with the new refrigerant. A shop quoted me $1,600 to do it and I was not spending that much on a 18 yr old car.
As for your symptoms, since they checked it and recharged it, I can think of three things. It could be your cycling/pressure switch is not working or it is something electrical causing the compressor to turn off. The AC compressor is not supposed to work 100% of the time when the AC is on because if it did, the evaporator coil inside the car under the dash will freeze up and stop the air from blowing through it. The switch senses the refrigerant pressure and turns the compressor on and off to keep it from freezing up. Maybe it is turning off for too long and thus the AC blows hot air until it turns back on. You would know this by looking at the compressor and see if it is turning when the air is not blowing cold.
Another idea is that maybe the condenser in front of the radiator is not cooling the refrigerant enough. Is the car running any hotter than usual? I know my Mustang with the new r-134a refrigerant cools very well when I'm driving on the highway because the air is blowing through the condenser. But when I'm in traffic, and there is little airflow, the condenser does not cool it down as much and the air is not as cold. This would be evident if it is only blowing cold when driving, and not in traffic.
A third idea is maybe your blend door is not working right. Most cars have a vacuum or electrical operated solenoid that changes the way air blows through the ducts. Set it on hot, and it blows through the heater core. Set it on cool and it blows through the AC evaporator. Maybe it is not sealing properly or moving between the settings and that is why you get uncooled air for a while.
Either way, if your car is cooling at times, and then not cooling, and then cooling again, I doubt there is a leak in the system. And most systems will turn off the compressor via the cycling/pressure switch if there is a leak to save the compressor and other components from damage if the refrigerant level gets too low. Then the AC just will not turn on and it will blow hot air all the time.
The only component that could go bad if there is not a leak in the system would be a compressor. Is that what they are saying the $800 repair would be for? If it is bad, they may have to flush the system to remove any contaminants, replace the compressor - and new is the best way to go on that part, rebuilt I've had problems with in the past - and replace the dryer which keeps the system free of moisture, and recharge it back up. That sounds like about $800 or so.
But look at it this way, $800 is how many car payments? two or 3? How about the other 33-45 or 57 payments? And just be happy you didn't just change your interior from red cloth to black leather like I did when mine went out. I drove it in the Houston summer for 2 years ~36 miles a day, and that was not fun!
Good luck on it!
Edit: Dang, a lot of people posted since I started this reply! Good info!
IMO, you'd do better to seek out an independent auto A/C service specialist who can properly diagnose the system failure.
That might explain why they were fairly quick to suggest a complete system replacement instead of trouble shooting it. I'll ask around for some recommendations to use when it gets worse/hotter.
I absolutely LOVE my 2005 Subaru Forester. It has 115K miles on it. I recently took a job much closer to home so my weekly commute is going to be something like 15 miles. Total.
Alas, just when the NC heat starts flaming up, my AC starts fritzing out. It will work for a while, then just blow un cooled air, then blow cold. It might kick in and out 3-4 times in a hour's drive.
Took it to my guys, (who have never done me wrong) who charged me $50 to discharge the refrigerant and recharge it. Unfortunately, I drove 15 miles today and the AC is not improved as far as I could tell.
They warned me that 115K was very very old for an AC and I MIGHT make it through the summer without having to replace it. For $800 or so.
I don't have $800. And I know you are thinking, well, she only drives 15 miles per week. But I live in NC, so 95 degree days are not unheard of, and on occasion I drive to the beach or to my parents house...2-5 hours in the hot sun makes children cranky.
Is there some sort of plug in AC? other temporary solution? Is it possible to buy a USED AC unit for a Subaru?
What are my options here?
Because the car is worth about $2500, if I sold it that would be a decent down payment (on a newer subaru, of course). But I really like this car and don't really want to take on a loan payment right now.
$800 is the price for them to do the job. Grab a wrench and you can probably get it done for a quarter of that price.
Wow! 100K miles is an OLD AC? Wonder if they were talking specifically about Subaru? I drove a TDI NB for 500K miles and the AC still worked fine in the Las Vegas heat!
It doesn't seem like it, but my sister has a Forrester of about the same vintage and their AC is out as well, so it may be a common issue on that model.
If that's really all that's wrong with the car and you don't have any great desire to upgrade anyway, I'd go to the bank and see if they'll loan you the money to fix it for a year, either as a signature loan or against the car. ~$70/month for a year to keep a car that you like and is otherwise in good shape seems better than ~$300/month for 3-4 years for a used car that may develop issues of its own before you have it paid off.
And I know you said you didn't want to hear it, but average summer temps in my part of Iowa are within a couple of degrees of the warmers areas of NC and I managed a 40 mile daily commute last summer with no AC. It's not fun, but it's not the end of the world either.
Lastly, and I know that you won't want to hear this either, if your finances are so tight that you can't afford an $800 car repair, cutting down on the trips to the beach might be a prudent idea, at least until you can save some "rainy day" money.
Oh, come on! A trip to the beach can be a very low cost form of summer entertainment, bring your own cooler, snacks, etc.
The OP isn't asking for criticism about her budget, she's asking advice about her AC! Get off your high horse
You guys are all good and well experienced.
Hey turbostang, I saw ur response to my post in houston. Thumbs up
Op..Your mechanic maybe nice but he may not know what he's doing so he can't charge you much.
My Internet diagnose---Sounds like the expansion valve is stuck. Freon is there, it's not circulating.
That can be tricky to diagnose.
The system sucked in freon. So the relay and compressor is good.
If your mechanic had Injected dye and there's a leak, it ll show up. They jus have to look.
One thing that we all over look is the AC button(switch). Make sure that button work.
Nowadays, 100k miles car is nothing.
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Good info!
