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Sure anything is possible. But not as easy as it is with early models. I just don’t see the point of doing such modification truthfully. Most trucks today have double the hp and torque trucks did 20 years ago. I ride in my buddy’s Dodge diesel and that thing was effortlessly going up a hill. Had endless torque. And who buys a 60/70,000 dollar truck to screw with it
Well I can tell you prohibiting sales....it does work. In California you cannot get such equipment shipped here anymore. Most websites won’t sell them to you. I recently needed a crush washer and metal screw in nipple for a fuel pump and I had to call to order it as I couldn’t get it shipped here. The guy I spoke to said they no longer shop any emissions parts that are designed to remove or delete emission equipment. Somecparts you can call and get but it has to be a replacement of like part.
It will eventually get to that. It does not take a lot to get public opinion against you. And our legislators love making rukes and regulations. Just give them the smallest reason
People buy the computer kits all the time and you can still get them online. Just the fuel savings alone is what most are after. Right now a smog check is still visual for an oil burner. I know a dealership that will still install whatever you want, and remove it before smog. Then change it back afterwards.
While most aren't that stupid, there are plenty that are that stupid.
Well, two people just got busted for driving around after school squirting gasoline with squirt guns on kids walking home so there are A holes everywhere.
People buy the computer kits all the time and you can still get them online. Just the fuel savings alone is what most are after. Right now a smog check is still visual for an oil burner. I know a dealership that will still install whatever you want, and remove it before smog. Then change it back afterwards.
It may be a visual check but here it’s also a 3x snap throttle test. And you remove smog equipment a smog tech is gonna know. And a lot of this smog equipment is integrated in the function of the engine. I mean CAN soneone go buy a bunch of parts and piece a smog delete system together...sure. Still needs to be tuned. If you got time and money but taking things off and on then going to the smog place is gonna get tiresome. I’m sure you can find someone to illegally smog your car but those guys get caught faster now. Also your warranty may be declined if you tamper with emissions.
Bottom line is that eventually you do enough stupid crap you’re going to pop out on someone’s radar. Lots of companies have ceased shippmrnts to states that are cracking down on this emissions tampering.
I’m still not exactly sure where fuel savings comes in when the whole exercise of rolling coal requires additional fuel being burned to achieve the additional smoke. How exactly are you saving fuel and rolling coal.
Last edited by Electrician4you; 04-08-2019 at 07:53 PM..
I'm not sure that going after aftermarket parts companies is going to work. These rednecks (myself included) know how to bypass everything and/or fabricate their own parts.
If the authorities want to create legislation to curb this, they should make "rolling coal" an easily identified and ticketed moving violation. If a cop sees somebody doing it - and they will - they can nail them with a $150 fine (or whatever amount is deemed appropriate).
I think deleting is a lot deeper than "rolling coal".
The reason a lot of folks delete the emissions equipment off of diesel trucks are due to the high cost associated with replacing components as they fail. A delete kit is around $1,500 so it makes more economical sense to some to go that route. Yes, there is fuel savings and the ability to turn up the HP/TQ but for many people the real reason is that replacing those components are cost prohibitive.
I deleted my 2012 Ram 2500 due to the DPF failing, not because I wanted to roll coal. I deleted my 2008 F250 because the EGR system failed and blew head gaskets on the truck. Since there is no replacement of the factory emissions system on the 6.4 Powerstroke that is guaranteed not to fail again I chose the delete option so the truck would be reliable.
If any of these parts fail, the engines go into limp mode and are no longer able to be used until repaired. For some who depend on the trucks to make a living or as their daily driver a failure can be catastrophic to their livelihood. Or.... they can delete the emissions system and be back on the road in a day for a fraction of the cost.
Delete pipe - $62
Tuner - $1,500
Most of the people I know drive diesel trucks for various reasons and any time we have ever deleted has been due to a failure, not for the "thrill" of rolling coal. I have not touched my 2016 3500 yet, but it's about to roll 100k, which is where some of the systems can begin to fail. When it fails, I will likely delete again as an economical and quick way to get the truck back into service.
If you want people to stop deleting the emissions equipment manufacturers will have to bring the cost of replacement components down to a level where the average Joe can afford to replace them.
It may be a visual check but here it’s also a 3x snap throttle test. And you remove smog equipment a smog tech is gonna know. And a lot of this smog equipment is integrated in the function of the engine. I mean CAN soneone go buy a bunch of parts and piece a smog delete system together...sure. Still needs to be tuned. If you got time and money but taking things off and on then going to the smog place is gonna get tiresome. I’m sure you can find someone to illegally smog your car but those guys get caught faster now. Also your warranty may be declined if you tamper with emissions.
Bottom line is that eventually you do enough stupid crap you’re going to pop out on someone’s radar. Lots of companies have ceased shippmrnts to states that are cracking down on this emissions tampering.
I’m still not exactly sure where fuel savings comes in when the whole exercise of rolling coal requires additional fuel being burned to achieve the additional smoke. How exactly are you saving fuel and rolling coal.
No one I know is doing anything just for the stupid trick of extra smoke. They are doing it for more power and an increase (big) in fuel economy. Plus, if they are doing it they don't care about a "warranty".
I think deleting is a lot deeper than "rolling coal".
The reason a lot of folks delete the emissions equipment off of diesel trucks are due to the high cost associated with replacing components as they fail. A delete kit is around $1,500 so it makes more economical sense to some to go that route. Yes, there is fuel savings and the ability to turn up the HP/TQ but for many people the real reason is that replacing those components are cost prohibitive.
I deleted my 2012 Ram 2500 due to the DPF failing, not because I wanted to roll coal. I deleted my 2008 F250 because the EGR system failed and blew head gaskets on the truck. Since there is no replacement of the factory emissions system on the 6.4 Powerstroke that is guaranteed not to fail again I chose the delete option so the truck would be reliable.
If any of these parts fail, the engines go into limp mode and are no longer able to be used until repaired. For some who depend on the trucks to make a living or as their daily driver a failure can be catastrophic to their livelihood. Or.... they can delete the emissions system and be back on the road in a day for a fraction of the cost.
Delete pipe - $62
Tuner - $1,500
Most of the people I know drive diesel trucks for various reasons and any time we have ever deleted has been due to a failure, not for the "thrill" of rolling coal. I have not touched my 2016 3500 yet, but it's about to roll 100k, which is where some of the systems can begin to fail. When it fails, I will likely delete again as an economical and quick to get the truck back into service.
If you want people to stop deleting the emissions equipment manufacturers will have to bring the cost of replacement components down to a level where the average Joe can afford to replace them.
Deleting the emissions equipment is still illegal regardless if you get smog tested. Lots people got caught with their pants down here in California when they implemented smog testing and went retrotive and a lot of guys removed their smog equipment and found themselves up crap creek without a paddle.
My truck has no emissions on it and I still have to smog it every two years. Probably why the value on it has shot through the roof.
I understand why people do it. Thrill, thumbing their nose at the Man, no money to fix it with factory equipmen, deleting so they don’t have to use expensive factory parts and reliability. Hey a lot of people did the same thing with gas cars when emissions first came out. I remember my buddy’s dad...the first thing he did was hollow out the catalitics. Eventually it will be next to impossible to do it. It may take a while but eventually it’s gonna happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer
No one I know is doing anything just for the stupid trick of extra smoke. They are doing it for more power and an increase (big) in fuel economy. Plus, if they are doing it they don't care about a "warranty".
Nobody YOU may know.....but thousands of videos online showing and proving juvenile behavior tells me a lot of people do “roll coal” as a entertainment piece. While some may not be doing it for the deliberate ability to ”roll coal” it is likely a byproduct of the deletion. The whole idea of a DPF filter and EGR system is to manage and stop or greatly reduce the sooty exhaust and particulates.
I guess if you got the money to buy a 65/75,000 dollar truck and start tearing the engine apart more power to you. I would however hang on to the parts you remove because you may find yourself in a situation where you may be putting it back on like a lot of California residents did. And before you say it’s never nana happen where you live....don’t be too sure.
Deleting the emissions equipment is still illegal regardless if you get smog tested. Lots people got caught with their pants down here in California when they implemented smog testing and went retrotive and a lot of guys removed their smog equipment and found themselves up crap creek without a paddle.
My truck has no emissions on it and I still have to smog it every two years. Probably why the value on it has shot through the roof.
I understand why people do it. Thrill, thumbing their nose at the Man, no money to fix it with factory equipmen, deleting so they don’t have to use expensive factory parts and reliability. Hey a lot of people did the same thing with gas cars when emissions first came out. I remember my buddy’s dad...the first thing he did was hollow out the catalitics. Eventually it will be next to impossible to do it. It may take a while but eventually it’s gonna happen.
Well aware of the legalities of it. However, sometimes people have to weigh the risk of getting caught over inflated costs and down time on their rig to get it fixed. My area doesn't do smog tests and there's no discussion over making it a requirement. But they may at some point in the future. People have to do what they have to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you
Nobody YOU may know.....but thousands of videos online showing and proving juvenile behavior tells me a lot of people do “roll coal” as a entertainment piece. While some may not be doing it for the deliberate ability to ”roll coal” it is likely a byproduct of the deletion. The whole idea of a DPF filter and EGR system is to manage and stop or greatly reduce the sooty exhaust and particulates.
I guess if you got the money to buy a 65/75,000 dollar truck and start tearing the engine apart more power to you. I would however hang on to the parts you remove because you may find yourself in a situation where you may be putting it back on like a lot of California residents did. And before you say it’s never nana happen where you live....don’t be too sure.
True.... and unfortunately that is all that people hang on. No one looks at the overall picture. Only the squeaky wheel.
Rolling coal is not a by product of deletion in itself. You can buy quality tunes that produce zero black smoke (my trucks didn't roll coal). You can also buy cheap tunes that dump excessive fuel into the engine with the sole purpose of rolling coal. Then there are also cheaper tunes that's purpose is to add power, but do not control fuel trim well enough and causes black smoke.
If someone is rolling coal it is because they want to and took the steps necessary to get a tune with that purpose in mind. Not because they bought a tune or deleted in general.
The EGR system on a diesel forces the exhaust back through the engine a second time which soots up the engine and ultimately shortens the life expectancy of the engine and the emission components.
Could that mean that people have to buy parts from the manufacturer more often and pay the inflated prices? Possibly. Could it also mean a win for the gov because they get to fine folks who can't pass emission testing? Possibly. I would venture to say that there are lobbyists involved somewhere down the line. Not saying that we shouldn't take the environment into consideration because we should. But I am saying that people don't tend to get involved with things like this based on morals or good nature. They do it for money.
Well aware of the legalities of it. However, sometimes people have to weigh the risk of getting caught over inflated costs and down time on their rig to get it fixed. My area doesn't do smog tests and there's no discussion over making it a requirement. But they may at some point in the future. People have to do what they have to do.
True.... and unfortunately that is all that people hang on. No one looks at the overall picture. Only the squeaky wheel.
Rolling coal is not a by product of deletion in itself. You can buy quality tunes that produce zero black smoke (my trucks didn't roll coal). You can also buy cheap tunes that dump excessive fuel into the engine with the sole purpose of rolling coal. Then there are also cheaper tunes that's purpose is to add power, but do not control fuel trim well enough and causes black smoke.
If someone is rolling coal it is because they want to and took the steps necessary to get a tune with that purpose in mind. Not because they bought a tune or deleted in general.
The EGR system on a diesel forces the exhaust back through the engine a second time which soots up the engine and ultimately shortens the life expectancy of the engine and the emission components.
Could that mean that people have to buy parts from the manufacturer more often and pay the inflated prices? Possibly. Could it also mean a win for the gov because they get to fine folks who can't pass emission testing? Possibly. I would venture to say that there are lobbyists involved somewhere down the line. Not saying that we shouldn't take the environment into consideration because we should. But I am saying that people don't tend to get involved with things like this based on morals or good nature. They do it for money.
I don’t think most of these companies that make these delete kits or parts really care about anything but their pocket. Hey I bought a diesel because I didn’t want to deal with smog testing. I didn’t care about modifying my vehicle. When smog check my round for diesels in Ca everyone freaked because there’re a of people who ripped out their smog stuff and trashed it. At one point a cat con or DPF filter for a diesel was selling for thousands. And I’m talking used stuff.
Eventually what will happen is to going to get legislated into testing and inspections. All these smog parts are expensive because they are so new. The aftermarket will eventually come up with something that works. My wife’s car needed cats. OEM was 1100 bucks a pop. And installed was another 1000 per side. I bought a aftermarket set for 1200 bucks. A non CARB set would run 500 bucks. T they wouldn’t pas visual check. Eventually testing booth visual and electronic/mechanics will be implemented more and more.
I take it that you guys never went through a Smog Alert or even had them.
I don’t think most of these companies that make these delete kits or parts really care about anything but their pocket. Hey I bought a diesel because I didn’t want to deal with smog testing. I didn’t care about modifying my vehicle. When smog check my round for diesels in Ca everyone freaked because there’re a of people who ripped out their smog stuff and trashed it. At one point a cat con or DPF filter for a diesel was selling for thousands. And I’m talking used stuff.
Eventually what will happen is to going to get legislated into testing and inspections. All these smog parts are expensive because they are so new. The aftermarket will eventually come up with something that works. My wife’s car needed cats. OEM was 1100 bucks a pop. And installed was another 1000 per side. I bought a aftermarket set for 1200 bucks. A non CARB set would run 500 bucks. T they wouldn’t pas visual check. Eventually testing booth visual and electronic/mechanics will be implemented more and more.
I take it that you guys never went through a Smog Alert or even had them.
That's likely correct. These companies found a problem and "solved" it whilst making a grand profit for themselves. Consumers are willing to pay for the "solution" because it's more economical, faster, and easier to get the truck back on the road. Some trucks may sit in the shop for a month or better waiting for emissions parts to be installed. That's a lot of downtime for a small business owner who depends on the truck.
If the aftermarket companies would come up with an option as inexpensive as a delete kit (or reasonably priced) a lot of people would keep their equipment. Rolling coal is not as big in the diesel world as many might think. But keeping the trucks on the road is paramount.
A delete kit is very simple in its most basic form. Sure, you can go as far as removing all of the EGR coolers, elbows, sensors, etc... (if you choose) but you can also turn them off and leave them in place. The only thing that has to come off is the DPF and NOX filter in the exhaust. A few clamps and they come off to be replaced with a straight pipe. Sensors can be tied to the frame in the event that they need to be reinstalled.
If someone needs a smog check it would take a couple hours of work to put everything back to factory and install the factory tune back into the truck and go through the check. Then reinstall on a Saturday morning until the next check. A good quality tuner doesn't leave a trace in the ECM, so it would be extremely difficult to tell that the truck has been modified.
Point being - people will do what they have to do in the most economical sense to include taking risks if it keeps their livelihood in tact. They're not always out to beat the system for fun, but sometimes to continue to be able to make their living with their rigs.
There are no emissions testing requirements in my state, so no, I have not gone through them but I do know of people who have and use the very method I mentioned above to pass the checks so they can continue on about their lives.
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