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Old 09-27-2014, 08:24 AM
 
Location: New Market, MD
2,573 posts, read 3,480,773 times
Reputation: 3259

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yup let's just sit and wait for future. I wonder where the world would be if everyone who did something important in the past thought the same
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:49 AM
 
Location: London
4,717 posts, read 5,020,438 times
Reputation: 2154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Current reality is ICE wins.
You clearly ignored my posts. Are you a victim of big auto propaganda?
Quote:
The market will determine when the time is right to change to an electric car.
As the market is rigged, it will not. Look at the link to USB I gave. It is easier that way.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:51 AM
 
Location: London
4,717 posts, read 5,020,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
My point about LED lights was about driver safety in cold climates which results in snow and ice. .
I got that point.
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Old 09-27-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,257,915 times
Reputation: 10755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
See the pattern? This is all speculation and idle prediction, not current reality. Current reality is ICE wins. The market will determine when the time is right to change to an electric car. Current sales indicate the market still deciding in favor of ICE.

I believe the market share for electric cars is less than 1/2 of 1%. So 99.5% of the market remains ICE. That means most car buyers are evaluating the alternatives, measuring the costs, and deciding on ICE. That is reality. That is the present.
Not exactly. The EV share of the market is still small, but trending up sharply. And now California's new 2015 requirement that a percentage of each manufacturer's cars sold MUST be zero-emissions... and 12 states basically copy California requirements... is targeted within a few years to be at 15%.

Unless you factor in that EVs (electric vehicles) are also ZEVs (zero emissions vehicles) you'll never understand why cars that currently cost more than typical ICE cars, and aren't as convenient to use, are already selling, and why almost every car manufacturer is now jumping on the bandwagon to bring new models to market.

Next year will see several fuel-cell powered EVs hit the market, and more the year after. That could also be another game changer.

Last edited by OpenD; 09-27-2014 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 09-27-2014, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,257,915 times
Reputation: 10755
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Oh, and one of the biggest obsticals to solar and wind power generators isn't big oil, it's animal rights activist. Solar power plants and wind generators kill birds at a staggering rate
This is another popular sensationalistic myth courtesy of the anti-renewable energy propaganda machine.

Yes, there are birds killed at windfarms and at solar farms but not in staggering numbers. I remember at one giant solar farm in the California desert activists were loudly complaining about dozens of dead birds found at one sprawling site.

But US wildlife experts say that automobiles kill 600 million birds a year, domestic housecats kill over a billion birds a year, and buildings... yes, plain ordinary stationary buildings, like typical houses with glass patio doors... kill a billion birds a year. Now THOSE are staggering numbers.
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Old 09-27-2014, 01:50 PM
 
769 posts, read 775,402 times
Reputation: 1791
I pay $240/month on my Ford Focus Electric and drive 4 miles per kWh. It costs maybe $15/month in electricity. For a fun to drive car (torque when you need it), fully loaded. Full battery every morning and usually more than 50% range left at night.

Best bang for the buck car I ever drove. Zero emissions a bonus. Your landlord can enjoy his conservative truck that costs $400/month + $200/month gas with its manly 12mpg efficiency.
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Old 09-27-2014, 02:08 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,968,291 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Not exactly. The EV share of the market is still small, but trending up sharply. And now California's new 2015 requirement that a percentage of each manufacturer's cars sold MUST be zero-emissions... and 12 states basically copy California requirements... is targeted within a few years to be at 15%.

Unless you factor in that EVs (electric vehicles) are also ZEVs (zero emissions vehicles) you'll never understand why cars that currently cost more than typical ICE cars, and aren't as convenient to use, are already selling, and why almost every car manufacturer is now jumping on the bandwagon to bring new models to market.

Next year will see several fuel-cell powered EVs hit the market, and more the year after. That could also be another game changer.
Again, all forward-thinking statements and language.

But I'm fine with all that if the market determines viability. I am not cool with the government mandating part. That type of manipulation usually results in market aberrations that fail to accomplish the stated goal, and are immoral anyway since they infringe on individual rights. They also inflate costs. So in order to force sales of the electric, their price will need to be depressed below cost and below logic, forcing the automakers to raise prices on gasoline powered models, which hurts the consumer.

The best policy is to let the free market decide when these cars are to come into play, rather than the social engineers.
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Old 09-27-2014, 02:12 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,968,291 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by octo View Post
I pay $240/month on my Ford Focus Electric and drive 4 miles per kWh. It costs maybe $15/month in electricity. For a fun to drive car (torque when you need it), fully loaded. Full battery every morning and usually more than 50% range left at night.

Best bang for the buck car I ever drove. Zero emissions a bonus. Your landlord can enjoy his conservative truck that costs $400/month + $200/month gas with its manly 12mpg efficiency.
That is fine and you should drive whatever you choose and can afford to buy. But leave others the same freedom. Don't tell others what to do or how to live. Not saying you personally, I am referring to the busybody social engineers that like to use government force to compel behaviors that they determine are correct.
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Old 09-27-2014, 02:20 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,968,291 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
You clearly ignored my posts. Are you a victim of big auto propaganda?

As the market is rigged, it will not. Look at the link to USB I gave. It is easier that way.
Nothing is rigged. I understand the cynicism since you live under oppressive and all-encompassing statism and are bound to be distrustful and depressed.

But the free market should be allowed to determine when and whether electric cars should become an important mode of transportation.

I personally prefer ICE. Not only because they are much cheaper TODAY IN THE REAL WORLD, not the forward thinking soon this and that world.

But also I do not want to concentrate the power of transportation in the hands of public and quasi-public utilities. Too much centralization and corruption. Better to have energy allocation diversified among many fuels and many fuel providers.
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Old 09-27-2014, 02:28 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,968,291 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
You clearly ignored my posts. Are you a victim of big auto propaganda?

As the market is rigged, it will not. Look at the link to USB I gave. It is easier that way.
Please do not offer links from The Guardian as any kind of objective or reality based data on electric cars. The Guardian is an agenda-based publication.
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