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interesting thoughts sunspirit, thanks. though i should mention that when i said triple the oil, i wasn't citing so much the cost as i was the amount of oil. everyone's talking about wanting to use less oil/gas/etc; it seems like it should be obvious that here is one way...
Great info sunspirit. I drive a 2002 Nissan Altima 4 cyl, usually about 10K to 12K a year. I don't commute in the car very much, I normally ride a bicycle to work. I use the car for weekend road trips, some longer vacation trips and some local errands. So this car gets pretty light use, I don't drive it hard. Oil and filter changes at about 5K work fine for me. I've tried Mobil 1 on sale at Wally Mart a few times in the 5 qt bottle, but most of the time I've used "dino juice" 5-30 of almost any brand out there, Penz, Quak, Castrol, Chevron, Havoline. Is there really any big difference between the common oil brands that have the certified "API" sticker, for non-turbo passenger cars used in everyday driving situations?
Oil filter changes are important too. All oil filters are not necessarily the same, some have better filtration than others. I've been using Purolator PureGold filters that cost about $5.50, slightly more than some Frams or store brand filters but I read good reports about them. What oil filters do you like sunspirit??
Recycled ... BIG differences in the oil(s) and filters.
With the quality of metallurgy and tolerances in your Nissan, use the Havoline, Valvoline, or Chevron oils ... whichever is least expensive, on sale ... when you need oil. Buy cases and stock up for a couple of years if there's a really good promo ... I saw Valvoline at 79cents with a newspaper coupon a week ago, and bought 6 cases.
Avoid the pennsylvania crude oils, which have a very long "waxy" molecule. These were vastly superior oils for the technology and tolerances of the 1910-1960 automotive era, and earned a great reputation at the time. However, that long "waxy" molecule is way too long in today's motors and gets physically sheared into long and short fragments in todays motors. Essentially, at a molecular level, about 30% of the fresh oil you put into your motor will shear into fragments that are too short to fit properly into the bearing surface clearances. As a side note, it was the car racers of the late 60's-70's who discovered this problem ... they documented that most of their engine failures were happening within the first 50 miles after an oil change; this was due to the "too long" waxy molecules being sheared off into pieces during that time and the oil wasn't lubricating properly until there was a substantial percentage of sheared off molecules of the right length doing what the oil was supposed to be doing.
I've seen many motors come through my shop from dealers for ring/valve jobs; I could tell the ones that had been run on PA crude feedstock motor oils. They were the ones that were all sludged up in the pan and upper end, despite service records proving frequent interval oil changes. I used to panic over this happening on my own cars until I realized that my own high mileage BMW's and MB's were spotless in the top ends when I was routinely adjusting the valves and had the covers off ... but I've been running mid-continent feedstock oils since 1959 in all the vehicles I worked on (family cars, boats, motorcycles).
However, there is definite use for the PA feedstock motor oils: almost worn out high mileage motors. I had a lot of dealer cars that were marginally smoking a bit of blue out the exhaust, especially on cold start-up and the downrun when warm. Before spending a lot of money on one of these dealer specials, I'd try to "dry" them up enough to pass muster (and later, emissions testing). I'd change them over to straight weight Quacker State or Pennz and run them for a week or two as shop drivers. If the oil consumption stabilized and the blue smoke went away, these cars were ready to go back to the dealer for very little money. Of course, we'd tell them to tell the buyer to run that oil, and that the motors would run best on it. For the folks that followed our suggestion, they could often get another year or two of smoke free driving out of the car because that long "waxy" molecule built up behind the ring lands on the pistons and on valve stems.
Of course, it never failed that somebody would have one of these cars running just fine and decide to put in some other favorite oil ... Kendall, Castrol, or a mid-continent crude based oil. The high detergent load and shorter molecules would strip out the "waxy" deposits on critical surfaces in no time ... and they'd be screaming about how the dealer had sold them a "bad" car. More than once, I had to demonstrate to the car buyer that the motor was "tight" and not smoking once they changed back to a PA oil. Some wouldn't do that, they had their favorite, and by golly, that's all they were going to run in their car. So be it ... now I got to quote a minor engine overhaul.
I saved one fellow with a '58 300SL about $25 grand ... not only did the PA oil dry up the blue smoke, but it also sealed up some minor weeps and seeps at crankshaft seals and the fuel injection pump front seal (which was a real pain to replace on these cars).
Ah, filters. Be aware that there's few actual manufacturers of these; they make the filters to the individual brands specs. The major fleets I worked on used Baldwin brand filters. For the german cars, I used Hengst, Knecht, or Mann ... which seemed to be quality filters compared to the "bosch" brand oil filters (although Bosch fuel filters worked well) or some of the other brands.
On the Japanese cars I've worked on, the OE manufacturer's filters seem to be better than the aftermarket filters, especially the "cheapies". There isn't an appreciable difference in price between the dealer OE filter and the aftermarket filters.
I'm not happy with Fram, NAPA, or the filters you'll see at the franchised quick lube emporiums. Case in point ... I had the owner of several franchise lubritoriums in Denver bring me his BMW with a complaint of "knocking" on cold start-up. He changed oil every 2,500 miles (very excessive, IMO) with their in-house white box BMW filter, which I showed him did not have the anti-drain back valve that was in every quality german oil filter and spec'd OE filters. I didn't even change the oil in his car, I replaced the oil filter while he watched and sent him on his way. He reported no further noises on cold start-up after that. However, he was still going to install the white box crappy oil filter for all his customers BMW's, without any comment about an upgrade, because that was the franchise policy. He knew that he was selling junk!
He was also a great source of business for me ... about 1 blown up MB diesel per month on their franchise supplied tissue paper thin "made in India" cheap oil filter kit with an O ring seal that would blow out every now and then within minutes of being installed (wrong size O ring!). I can't tell you how many cars blew all the oil out within minutes after leaving his premises, and seized the #3 main bearing within seconds after the oil pressure gauge starting falling off the normal peg while at road speeds. As I said, his insurance companies and I got to know each other quite well after a year or two .... along with his preferred flat bed tow service.
So, if you're planning on getting a lot of years of good reliable service out of your Nissan, I'd use dealer OE oil filters and a quality mid-continent crude feedstock oil (BTW, not Castrol .... I have seen too many OHC's eaten up with their poor additive pack. Looks good on initial testing, but for some reason ... doesn't hold up over the miles. If you must run this brand oil on the street, think about using some BG MOA additive every oil change). No need to spend the money for exotics like Duckhams' or Kendall, either (altho' ... both very good oils, and the colors are lovely).
the purolator pure-one is a very good aftermarket filter. i use OEM filters, but if i don't i get a pure-one. if you google you can find a few filter comparisons, complete with cutaways and lots of details.
What happens if I don't get my oil changed every 3K?
How long can a car go without getting an oil change?
What would happen if I never got my oil changed?
Just wondering.
I don't think there's much difference whether you change the oil every 3K, or every 5K. At 10K, however, you will see increased sludge buildup, and lessened engine life. If you want extended oil change intervals, then use 100% synthetic oil...it's quite a bit superior to regular oil. I would use it anyway, in extreme cold or hot climates...
Many many years ago (my young and foolish college days) I attempted to add a quart of 10W-30 to my car at -54F, in Fairbanks, Alaska. Nothing came out, so I cut the lid off with a can opener. The oil inside was BEIGE in color, and would not flow at all...just stayed in the can. (Havoline 10W-30)
They say syn-oil will not gel like that...
Recycled ... BIG differences in the oil(s) and filters.
With the quality of metallurgy and tolerances in your Nissan, use the Havoline, Valvoline, or Chevron oils ... whichever is least expensive, on sale ... when you need oil. Buy cases and stock up for a couple of years if there's a really good promo ... I saw Valvoline at 79cents with a newspaper coupon a week ago, and bought 6 cases.
Avoid the pennsylvania crude oils, which have a very long "waxy" molecule. These were vastly superior oils for the technology and tolerances of the 1910-1960 automotive era, and earned a great reputation at the time. However, that long "waxy" molecule is way too long in today's motors and gets physically sheared into long and short fragments in todays motors. Essentially, at a molecular level, about 30% of the fresh oil you put into your motor will shear into fragments that are too short to fit properly into the bearing surface clearances. As a side note, it was the car racers of the late 60's-70's who discovered this problem ... they documented that most of their engine failures were happening within the first 50 miles after an oil change; this was due to the "too long" waxy molecules being sheared off into pieces during that time and the oil wasn't lubricating properly until there was a substantial percentage of sheared off molecules of the right length doing what the oil was supposed to be doing.
I've seen many motors come through my shop from dealers for ring/valve jobs; I could tell the ones that had been run on PA crude feedstock motor oils. They were the ones that were all sludged up in the pan and upper end, despite service records proving frequent interval oil changes. I used to panic over this happening on my own cars until I realized that my own high mileage BMW's and MB's were spotless in the top ends when I was routinely adjusting the valves and had the covers off ... but I've been running mid-continent feedstock oils since 1959 in all the vehicles I worked on (family cars, boats, motorcycles).
However, there is definite use for the PA feedstock motor oils: almost worn out high mileage motors. I had a lot of dealer cars that were marginally smoking a bit of blue out the exhaust, especially on cold start-up and the downrun when warm. Before spending a lot of money on one of these dealer specials, I'd try to "dry" them up enough to pass muster (and later, emissions testing). I'd change them over to straight weight Quacker State or Pennz and run them for a week or two as shop drivers. If the oil consumption stabilized and the blue smoke went away, these cars were ready to go back to the dealer for very little money. Of course, we'd tell them to tell the buyer to run that oil, and that the motors would run best on it. For the folks that followed our suggestion, they could often get another year or two of smoke free driving out of the car because that long "waxy" molecule built up behind the ring lands on the pistons and on valve stems.
Of course, it never failed that somebody would have one of these cars running just fine and decide to put in some other favorite oil ... Kendall, Castrol, or a mid-continent crude based oil. The high detergent load and shorter molecules would strip out the "waxy" deposits on critical surfaces in no time ... and they'd be screaming about how the dealer had sold them a "bad" car. More than once, I had to demonstrate to the car buyer that the motor was "tight" and not smoking once they changed back to a PA oil. Some wouldn't do that, they had their favorite, and by golly, that's all they were going to run in their car. So be it ... now I got to quote a minor engine overhaul.
I saved one fellow with a '58 300SL about $25 grand ... not only did the PA oil dry up the blue smoke, but it also sealed up some minor weeps and seeps at crankshaft seals and the fuel injection pump front seal (which was a real pain to replace on these cars).
Ah, filters. Be aware that there's few actual manufacturers of these; they make the filters to the individual brands specs. The major fleets I worked on used Baldwin brand filters. For the german cars, I used Hengst, Knecht, or Mann ... which seemed to be quality filters compared to the "bosch" brand oil filters (although Bosch fuel filters worked well) or some of the other brands.
On the Japanese cars I've worked on, the OE manufacturer's filters seem to be better than the aftermarket filters, especially the "cheapies". There isn't an appreciable difference in price between the dealer OE filter and the aftermarket filters.
I'm not happy with Fram, NAPA, or the filters you'll see at the franchised quick lube emporiums. Case in point ... I had the owner of several franchise lubritoriums in Denver bring me his BMW with a complaint of "knocking" on cold start-up. He changed oil every 2,500 miles (very excessive, IMO) with their in-house white box BMW filter, which I showed him did not have the anti-drain back valve that was in every quality german oil filter and spec'd OE filters. I didn't even change the oil in his car, I replaced the oil filter while he watched and sent him on his way. He reported no further noises on cold start-up after that. However, he was still going to install the white box crappy oil filter for all his customers BMW's, without any comment about an upgrade, because that was the franchise policy. He knew that he was selling junk!
He was also a great source of business for me ... about 1 blown up MB diesel per month on their franchise supplied tissue paper thin "made in India" cheap oil filter kit with an O ring seal that would blow out every now and then within minutes of being installed (wrong size O ring!). I can't tell you how many cars blew all the oil out within minutes after leaving his premises, and seized the #3 main bearing within seconds after the oil pressure gauge starting falling off the normal peg while at road speeds. As I said, his insurance companies and I got to know each other quite well after a year or two .... along with his preferred flat bed tow service.
So, if you're planning on getting a lot of years of good reliable service out of your Nissan, I'd use dealer OE oil filters and a quality mid-continent crude feedstock oil (BTW, not Castrol .... I have seen too many OHC's eaten up with their poor additive pack. Looks good on initial testing, but for some reason ... doesn't hold up over the miles. If you must run this brand oil on the street, think about using some BG MOA additive every oil change). No need to spend the money for exotics like Duckhams' or Kendall, either (altho' ... both very good oils, and the colors are lovely).
IF I ever decide to buy a BMW in Denver, I'll be sure not to go to taht Denver franchise. Geez. I guess good money for ya. LOL
You don't really want to buy a BMW anyway, do you? You know what it stands for?
Bite My Weinie. Big Money Waste. Beats My Wife. Break My Windshield. Behold My Wheels. Backwards: Wanted Mercedes Benz.
Sunsprit: congrats on the award! I'm jealous. I'm gonna change my google bar to a Sunsprit bar.
I've got questions for you about motor oil, but I'm off to lunch. Chow.
hhehe, nah. I don't want a Beemer. Heck, even Mercedes has been a bit of a disapointment. I am just fine with any infiniti (luxury Nissan) or CAtallic (luxury Chevy)thank you.
Motor oil is combosed of hydrocarbons of different lengths and structure. Under conditions of heat and paressure the lighter hydrocarbons burn away. As this process continues, the remaining oil gets heavier and heavier. Car companies (Ford, others) say change oil every 5,000 miles. Of course you can get 100% synthetic motor oil (Mobil 1, others) that can go 15,000 or so miles between changes, but the synthetic oils are more expensive.
Last edited by ggjacobsen; 01-05-2008 at 08:15 AM..
Reason: spelling
Oil picks up contaminates as it lubricates the mechanical parts, and these contaminates will create engine wear. Changing the oil at regular intervals is essential to maintaining performance and reducing engine wear.
Engine oil is made up of both base stocks and additive packages. Additive packages are the added protection your engine and other mechanical parts depend on to reduce wear, corrosion, and other unwanted elements that negatively affect your engine. (When possible, choose an oil heavily fortified with detergent and dispersant additives to prevent sludge deposits and keep engines clean for added protection)
Just as important is changing your filters. Filters are the essential component to engine protection and oil longevity. Filters trap and contain metal shavings, sludge, water, etc. A filter’s capacity refers to the amount of contaminants it can hold and still remain effective.
If you miss changing your oil and your filter, in time you risk encountering engine repair costs, reduced fuel consumption and performance issues. The problem is missing it once happens, but it becomes a habit for many people. Basically out of sight out of mind, but left unattended on a regular basis, will not be out of pocketbook.
Synthetic oil is said to be more expensive. If it is purchased and changed every 3000 miles I agree. If it is changed at the oil suppliers recommended change intervals, it is substantially less. The technology is here, it's the mindset that has some catching up to do.
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When to change oil
Changing your oil is critical
