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All-season tires suck in winter and summer conditions. I honestly don't know why anyone who drives in actual winter conditions would ever settle for them unless they just don't have the cash flow to buy anything but the cheapest set of tires to get them around. If I lived in a place that only gets a few inches of snow now and then, I'd probably use all-seasons as "winter" tires. Other than that, I can't imagine what possible use anyone would have for those POS things.
We have a second set of rims with studded traction tires mounted that are good for extreme winter conditions. We drive over the Siskiyous. I have never noticed that 4WD is any better than FWD in the winter. I have taken a Buick Park Avenue over the Siskiyous in a snow storm (fortunately it started after I passed the tire chain checkpoint so I didn't have to chain up) and a Daytona over the Santiam Pass when they were closing the road right behind me without spinning a wheel.
Front wheel drive and all season tires is good enough for me. We get snow but the roads get plowed pretty quick. It serves no purpose to have a vehicle to go out when the roads are closed.
This came up in a thread in the Subaru and the topic of driving in snow was touched upon. I live in snow country and have seen more than one 4WD/AWD with All Season (in reality-three season) tires in a ditch or unable to go up a hill when the road was covered with snow. And yes, many times I could tell they were three season tires by the tread pattern as I passed them at 5MPH or stopped to help when I saw the guy slide off the road. Those first several snow storms do take a toll.
Opinions?
Lot of this has to do with the skill of the driver, I've never had snow tires. My latest car has traction control and that makes a world of difference as well.
Personally, I think AWD is a waste of money on a typical car. If you have an SUV as a modern version of 4wd, that's something else, though.
But in my experience, so long as I have the clearance (this being a vitally important factor btw), my FWD car can get through anything my 4WD pickup can. But for heaven's sake, shut off the traction control! lol
An AWD car, however, is going to have similar clearance to FWD cars, so it's just a waste of money , n my experience...
I have driven just about every configuration imaginable through Buffalo winters. FWD with and without winter tires, RWD with and without. FWD based AWD which routes power to the rear when slip is detected. RWD based AWD which routes some power forward as the rear slips. AWD with an even 50/50 split naturally. AWD with a natural split biased to the rear. True 50/50 4WD.
Anything of these configurations "can" get through the snow and ice. Everything is "better" in the snow with proper tires. Some of these with regular all season tires are better than others.
That said, IMO, the optimal drivetrain configuration for snow and ice conditions in my experience is an AWD system which in it's native state routes power both forward and aft, and can route nearly all power to one axle or the other as needed. Adding winter tires only enhances the prowess of this drivetrain configuration in bad conditions.
So really, if you want the most optimal setup, that would be it IMO.
Otherwise, yes, you can get better handling on some FWD or RWD setups with winter tires than on some AWD's without. However, since drivetrain operation is not all created equal, nor are tires (some winter tires are far more capable than others in bad conditions, and likewise some all seasons are far more capable than others), debating which is better in general is an exercise in ignoring the many degrees of separation present.
Thing is, you are a real car guy, and have lived in snow country a long time. So you are making at least decent control inputs.
True on both counts. I spent my youth autocrossing cars without ABS, or Traction control or any of those driver aids and spent plenty of time driving a RWD mustang in the snow on summer tires, without ABS or any aids (this was 15 years ago or so). Nowadays, people think you were crazy...but go back to the 70's and that's all they had.
Tech today does make it easier, but it doesn't replace skill. Eventually I started slapping winter tires on my RWD cars and it was a night and day difference. I got ABS, T/C and even easier. They are great aid's to have, but you still need the skill to understand vehicle dynamics and how it will respond in a certain situation.
I bought an Infiniti G35x AWD (Rear bias, but 50/50 split when in SNOW mode) and it was like being on vacation when I drove in the snow. I've had that car for 7 winters and have yet to get it stuck...and I drove in heavy stuff as I HATE staying home during a blizzard, so I go explore the empty roads and search for a Dunks that's open. Most of the ability of the car is technology related, but there is nothing like 4 wheels pushing through the snow....as long as they have grip.
Not all all-seasons are the same. I've driven a few different brands and some are better than others. I drove a FWD maxima that had Goodyear Eagle RS-A's and these tires were terrible in the snow with a high HP (275ish) FWD car. That poor traction control system was always on and I had a terrible time getting that car moving unless I turned it off, spun the tires a bit and then reactivated it once I got up to 10MPH or so. Honda Accord's also come OEM with some terrible all-seasons as my G/F car has gotten stuck a few times requiring me to give it a push. So i'm not quite sold on FWD being "all you need" in snow unless you have tires that have good traction.
4WD/AWD still needs good tires as well. I have some direct comparison experience. I have my G35x as mentioned, and a Mercedes C300 4matic. The OEM tires are Continental ContiProContacts. On my G35x, I have Continental ExtremeContact DWS's. Same brand, but different model tires. I drove both cars in the same snowstorm this past winter (so they both drove on the same type of snow) and there was a huge difference in how the Contiprocontacts handled vs the Extremecontacts. I don't mean propulsion, but braking and handling. The contipro's slid more, and activated the ABS a lot more, while the Extreme's could be driven a little more aggressively and still bite. Needless to say, eventually I only started using the G35 in the snow simply because the tires were better. Both all-seasons, both pretty new tread but a huge difference in how they handled.
Anyway, to make a long story short, i'm not sure snow driving can be summed up with a blanket statement that says XWD > XWD because there are plenty of other variables. *I* prefer my AWD with with the all-season tires of my choice over a 2WD with winter tires because I have confidence in how the car handles and my ability. Now if my G/F were to drive it, I might change my tune. Since she didn't need to drive when it snowed (she's a teacher) I just drove her around when snow was on the ground. But if that were to ever change, I would prob get her snow tires, and an AWD vehicle.
If you are afraid to drive in the snow, you should probably just stay home anyway. I actually enjoy driving in the snow and look forward to it. Sometimes, a quiet drive down a snow-covered back road is very relaxing.
When you pass these cars in the ditches, do you get out an measure their tread depth? Examine the type of tires they run? The overall condition of their vehicle prior to the damage? Do you use your powers of clairvoyance to determine the skill and behavior that lead up to that? Or do you see a 4WD/AWD and conclude without a doubt that, "Oh, those vehicles aren't any extra advantage over my __________"
Personally, I think AWD is a waste of money on a typical car. If you have an SUV as a modern version of 4wd, that's something else, though.
But in my experience, so long as I have the clearance (this being a vitally important factor btw), my FWD car can get through anything my 4WD pickup can. But for heaven's sake, shut off the traction control! lol
An AWD car, however, is going to have similar clearance to FWD cars, so it's just a waste of money , n my experience...
AWD is a huge waste of money unless you have a performance vehicle or do some off-roading. AWD on asphalt / concrete streets is just throwing money down the toilet every mile.
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