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You're being a little overly dramatic here. I do agree with much of what you said, but how many of us are race car drivers? 99.9% of us on these forums don't drive well enough to even take a stock Mustang GT to its limits on the track, forget about a Porsche 911. In fact, I bet a professional driver driving a Chevy Malibu will post better lap times than you driving a BMW M4.
I'm not trying to be over dramatic, I'm just using analogies to help me make my point (just like they do on top gear lol) The thing with German cars is you do not have to be a race car driver to get almost maximum performance from the car. You need to practically be a race car driver to get the max from an American car though, because they are much tougher to keep under control - the power exceeds the handling and performance, scary stuff.
So out of all the American scrap metal you could have chosen to out do the M4, you chose the malibu?
I would have rather chosen the iconic corvette, but that's just me.
Sorry but while I respect your opinion, you could not be more wrong. The ultimate performance is tested in professional motor racing. Where are the American cars in Touring? Behind the Germans. Where are the American cars in Formula One? They don't exist right now because every time they try to compete, they fail miserably against the competition. The German brands are far superior to the American brands and always will be. American cars can only compete against themselves in Nascar - but hey, at least an American is guaranteed to win lol...just like in Baseball, Basketball, and American Football - compete against themselves because they can't compete in world sports.
I can push in the bumpers of a Corvette Z06 with my pinky finger and the interior falls apart as cheap materials are used. The handing of American cars are absolute crap. They can't corner for jack. The steering lacks feedback. As a driver, you just do not feel like you are in total control of the car. Its almost as though the fat man in Kentucky doesn't have a masters degree in engineering.
In my life, I started with American cars, then I switched to German. What a difference. I had a corvette, a camaro, and a saturn SC2 coupe. I have owned 3 mercedes, 2 BMW's and I have had both Audi and Porsche in my family.
While I can finally say that the brand new mustang and the new corvette can be called nice, for the money, I would go German over and over again. Although they are nice, they are still missing something. Its kind of like when your grandmother cooks up a good meatloaf, and it tastes good, but its missing salt.
America has great entertainment though. The music and movie industry are great. That's where America excels
You really need to experience more new cars. German automakers are in crisis and they know it, esp. BMW - look no further than the M5. German automakers literally lose sleep at night wondering why they can't build a car as reliable as an $18k Corolla or Civic, at any price, but that's nothing new, and it's only going to get worse, as ze Germans keep pumping out ever more unreliable turbo motors. And next year the 911 will be all turbo, and that is real shame for that was the last great German performance car.
Let me interject with one more point, that blatantly exposes my own ineptitude as a driver, but which might be prototypical of many "enthusiasts".
The three cars that I drive with some regularity are a first-generation Miata, an E36 M3, and a V6 Camry – the latter being the first model year with the 3.5L 268-hp V6. In terms of sheer nimbleness and effortless change in direction, the Miata far outclasses both the M3 and the Camry. The Camry, if in the correct gear (a big "if") and if the tires permit (another huge "if", given the drawbacks of FWD), can pull as hard as the M3. I get better 0-60 numbers on empty rural roads in the M3 than in the Camry, because the Camry can't launch and can't properly shift. But in terms of power-to-weight ratio, they are comparable. And the Camry might have an edge in midrange torque over the M3.
Steering-feel is better in the M3 than in the Camry, but again the Miata is incomparably superior. Where the M3 does better than either the Camry or the Miata is highway on-ramps, where it's comfortably planted while the Camry would understeer and the Miata would snap-oversteer.
My ideal would be the engine of the Camry (yes, Camry) in the chassis of the Miata, with the high-speed stability and suspension robustness of the M3. I'll take the M3's seats and stereo, the Miata dashboard and the Camry's HVAC system.
So what is the point of comparing a 24-year-old 100 hp convertible, a V6 plain-vanilla family sedan, and a 19-year-old M3? The point is that there's no clear winner. There isn't any one of them with wholly incomparably outstanding engineering, design-philosophy, reliability or good taste.
I'm not trying to be over dramatic, I'm just using analogies to help me make my point (just like they do on top gear lol) The thing with German cars is you do not have to be a race car driver to get almost maximum performance from the car. You need to practically be a race car driver to get the max from an American car though, because they are much tougher to keep under control - the power exceeds the handling and performance, scary stuff.
So out of all the American scrap metal you could have chosen to out do the M4, you chose the malibu?
I would have rather chosen the iconic corvette, but that's just me.
Your statement shows you missed my point. If I was driving a Corvette even I can outlap my wife and most of my friends if they were driving a M4. I chose the Malibu to illustrate how much more important driver skill is than a car's capabilities. You can throw away all those specs you read about in car magazines. Those numbers are achieved by near-professional drivers on a closed course. I agree with you that German cars just have a better feel to them, but in real life you can't really drive them around street corners any faster than you can a German car.
Let me interject with one more point, that blatantly exposes my own ineptitude as a driver, but which might be prototypical of many "enthusiasts".
The three cars that I drive with some regularity are a first-generation Miata, an E36 M3, and a V6 Camry – the latter being the first model year with the 3.5L 268-hp V6. In terms of sheer nimbleness and effortless change in direction, the Miata far outclasses both the M3 and the Camry. The Camry, if in the correct gear (a big "if") and if the tires permit (another huge "if", given the drawbacks of FWD), can pull as hard as the M3. I get better 0-60 numbers on empty rural roads in the M3 than in the Camry, because the Camry can't launch and can't properly shift. But in terms of power-to-weight ratio, they are comparable. And the Camry might have an edge in midrange torque over the M3.
Steering-feel is better in the M3 than in the Camry, but again the Miata is incomparably superior. Where the M3 does better than either the Camry or the Miata is highway on-ramps, where it's comfortably planted while the Camry would understeer and the Miata would snap-oversteer.
My ideal would be the engine of the Camry (yes, Camry) in the chassis of the Miata, with the high-speed stability and suspension robustness of the M3. I'll take the M3's seats and stereo, the Miata dashboard and the Camry's HVAC system.
So what is the point of comparing a 24-year-old 100 hp convertible, a V6 plain-vanilla family sedan, and a 19-year-old M3? The point is that there's no clear winner. There isn't any one of them with wholly incomparably outstanding engineering, design-philosophy, reliability or good taste.
Sounds like you need to sell all 3 of them and just get 1 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet to meet all your needs
Yeah, co-worker coulda had one for $1500 (estate sale liquidation). Straight, clean body, ran great. Just needed a new clutch. I told him TO BUY IT!!!! and he didn't ("Dude, it looks like a shoe-box? No way it's worth jack, and I bet a new clutch is at least $1800..."), and someone else did, and then he looked up what it was worth, and I remind him of it often.
I think I'm repeating a previous exchange with you on this car almost word for word, but a "roller" with NO engine or transmission, or just an S14 engine hanging on a chain, are each worth $1500 easy, even 5, maybe even 10 years ago! Too bad you didn't snap it up yourself, could have easily got 10X what you paid for it, or keep it.
Did you have any major repairs done on any of your M3's? Did it set you back pretty bad?
No, but I guess it all depends on your definition of "pretty bad". The 2 biggest repairs were factory recalls that were done for free (Rod bearing replacement, and ignition coil replacement). I did a lot of the minor stuff myself. Valve adjustment was fairly expensive, but that was normal maintenance after 125K miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passion4_Cars_Travelling
Does your current hard top convertible have any wind noise?
I'm assuming that you mean when the top is up? Of course there is wind noise when the top is down. Certainly quieter than the e46 when the top is up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passion4_Cars_Travelling
I want to get a blue one with red interior.
Both convertibles are/were blue with a black interior. Manual transmission.
Your statement shows you missed my point. If I was driving a Corvette even I can outlap my wife and most of my friends if they were driving a M4. I chose the Malibu to illustrate how much more important driver skill is than a car's capabilities. You can throw away all those specs you read about in car magazines. Those numbers are achieved by near-professional drivers on a closed course. I agree with you that German cars just have a better feel to them, but in real life you can't really drive them around street corners any faster than you can a German car.
You are right, I did miss the point. I skimmed through it in a hurry. Sorry about that. Yes, the driving skill does matter, especially if it is a manual.
You are very hopeful there my friend. Chevy and Ford have lightyears to go to even come close to German engineering. Americans can make cars that can go fast in a straight line, but who can't? The driving experience comes down to handling, the feel of the drive, being one with the car and the road, and overall performance. Mustangs and Camaro's can only dream. BMW is embracing technology because the planet that we are all destroying requires that of them. It is still the Ultimate Driving Machine. It is just having to go through some changes.
CTS-V Cadillac has been running with AMG/BMW M Series/ Audi S series cars for years now. New one is an absolute. weapon (640 HP, 630 TQ). I have owned 2 M3's and various V8 Audi/Mercedes products and after doing a CTS-V track event I was sold on their abilities!
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