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First and foremost, because Toyota issued a massive recall to fix the problem. They did two things. First, they replaced a throttle body on many of the cars. It was determined that at the end of the throttle body travel, there was a possibility it could stick. They also made sure that floor mats were properly installed and attached. You have no idea how many people have three or four mats on the floor.
I'm not commenting on this specific case, but you have to remember that the VAST majority of UI complaints are going to be user error. It is hard for people to admit that they might have just hit the wrong pedal, especially if they're in a Toyota and know about the past issue.
Probably because that is the time that coincides with the development of the internet?
Look, cars have had this code in them now for 20 years. Cars are safer than they've ever been. This includes Toyotas. Also, the Toyota issues don't have anything to do with the brakes. The issues were with the accelerator. And Toyota replaced all of the throttle bodies as part of the recall.
Your obsession with this is kind of like people that are scared of airbags or think seatbelts will kill them. There are some instances where the airbag can kill you, and you could be thrown free of a wreck if you aren't buckled in, but you are better off with an airbag and a seatbelt.
Also, the brakes, while they might have software in them, still operate mechanically. The car can't tell the brakes not to stop. You could disconnect all of the electronic sensors, and your dash would light up like a Christmas tree, but the car would still brake.
My issues with this situation are two fold. First and foremost I do not like the untrustworthy way in which Toyota handled this issue leading to more deaths, injuries and suffering. They do not deserve anyone's trust and there is still a lot of controversy over that computer code and whether or not it was ever really fixed properly or not.Why believe what they say? I don't. You tell me not to worry about this but I have to take it seriously. This is a life or death dangerous problem . The car I drive must carry myself and my daughter on a daily basis .How can I say this issue doesnt matter?
Secondly Toyota is one of the most well respected auto makers in the industry and if a computer glitch defect can take them down any car maker is at risk. My fears on this are not just with Toyota but with all these new computerized cars.And each year the cars get more technical and more computerized and I feel more concerned that things can go wrong. Computer geeks have already come forward and shown how these new cars can be hacked and the more computerized parts they put in the more can go wrong , because on many of these new cars one computer part is linked to others so when one malfunctions it affects other areas of the car as well. What I am saying is that none of these new computerized cars can be completely trusted. Just look how easily our computers break down and get viruses every day. I would not feel comfortable driving what amounts to a big computer with a few automotive parts but that is where we seem to be heading.
Last edited by vanguardisle; 11-02-2015 at 02:13 PM..
The Japanese and Nazis were friends in WWII, that alone makes me not want to buy them cars
I had a friend that fought the Japanese in the Pacific during World War II, and he went out of his way to buy Japanese goods. Although they were the enemy, he marveled at the Japanese work ethic, and attitudes. He drove Toyotas and had SONY TVs before most people ever heard of them. Throw in the fact that Japan has been a marvelous ally to the United States for the past 70 years, makes your view kind of ridiculous.
I hope sincerely you have a trouble free experience with your Toyota cars , and not meaning to put a damper on things I just wanted you to be aware of this issue on some rav 4s before your car arrives.
Its very clear that your intentions have been to bash Toyota, since not matter how many positive responses about Toyota automobiles forum member provide you with, you blindly forge ahead with your bashing.
Its very clear that your intentions have been to bash Toyota, since not matter how many positive responses about Toyota automobiles forum member provide you with, you blindly forge ahead with your bashing.
Okay nobody is listening to the articles I provided showing evidence of the bad code in Toyota brakes. You all expect me to ignore the overwhelming evidence and pretend everything is fine. And yes 89 people dead, who knows how many injured due to this unintended acceleration and I get posts telling me that it was because none of them knew the difference between the gas pedal and the brake?! That is the best explanation you have? I do not think most people who went through this scary situation or the families of those that died would appreciate being told it was because they did not have basic driving skills.
Yes Toyota lied and covered up the truth while their customers died, they deserve some bashing along with GM, Ford and any other auto maker that behaves the same way. Healthy skepticism is what I have not a desire to unfairly malign an automaker. They brought this on themselves. I used to be one of their biggest fans. Now I feel afraid to trust them.
I do not believe the issue is fixed because they never really admitted to the real problem in the first place. You want to trust them fine go ahead. I prefer to be safe rather then sorry.
Thank you for the articles. The oil consumption issue does not bother me as much as the unintended acceleration or ignition switch catching on fire or any other life threatening issue with a car. but since I have an interest in buying a used car right now I want to narrow down which makes, models and years are the best. Information like this is very helpful.
Last edited by vanguardisle; 11-03-2015 at 05:27 AM..
We've read the articles, we are familiar with the story. Conclusion, your fears are unfounded. The envidence you offer is old. After the recall the issues decreased. Meaning the corrective action worked. The fact that you ignore that piece of information shows bias.
The fact that you are now accusing other posters of not reading or understanding the issue indicates you are grasping at straws.
We've read the articles, we are familiar with the story. Conclusion, your fears are unfounded. The envidence you offer is old. After the recall the issues decreased. Meaning the corrective action worked. The fact that you ignore that piece of information shows bias.
The fact that you are now accusing other posters of not reading or understanding the issue indicates you are grasping at straws.
So, go buy something else.
I have to buy something else. Not just Toyota but Gm and Ford too. Any car maker that has had any kind of dangerous life threatening problem with their cars I have to cross them off my list. Why take chances? I do not know enough about cars to know which makes and models are safe and which are not. Maybe I should just pay to fix up my compact Hyundai sedan no matter how badly damaged it is? It has been a good car.
I have to say though that what has really upset me about this unintended acceleration issue and others like it is the lack of responsibility by these companies who's executives looked the other way and allowed these vehicles with dangerous problems to be sold and driven. And why does it seem that everyone on here acts like the deaths of these victims do not matter? They matter to me. Those involved truly belong in jail . Every last one of them.
The more research I have done on this subject the more confusing the issue becomes. Just when I thought that unintended acceleration was only caused by faulty code in new cars along comes the issue in older Toyotas as well . And for those accusing me of bashing Toyota I also found out that in the 80s Audi had an unintended acceleration problem too.
Here is where I based my claim that the unintended acceleration was due to faulty code. Software engineer Michael Barr's testimony and research.
Here is a quote from this article on the subject and a link to the article itself:
"In a nutshell, the team led by Barr Group found what the NASA team sought but couldn’t find: “a systematic software malfunction in the Main CPU that opens the throttle without operator action and continues to properly control fuel injection and ignition” that is not reliably detected by any fail-safe. To be clear, NASA never concluded software wasn’t at least one of the causes of Toyota’s high complaint rate for unintended acceleration; they just said they weren’t able to find the specific software defect(s) that caused unintended acceleration. We did."
Now here is where I get confused. Another man who was sent to prison for a 2006 crash that killed 3 people had claimed that his Toyota Camry accelerated uncontrollably to a high speed and he could not stop. The confusing thing is that the car is a 1996 model. Much older than the cars I thought would have any faulty computer code. And the reason for the unintended acceleration seems different as well.
Here are quotes from two articles on the subject and link to those articles :
"Lee's accident is among the first of a growing number of cases getting a second look since Toyota announced the recall, acknowledging that problems with sudden acceleration were more extensive than originally thought.'
"We found out, actually, it was known back in 2006, not long after this accident occurred, that if you were to look at the brake filament, you would have been able to tell that the brake lamp was illuminated at the time of the impact, which basically was evidence in support of Koua's story that the car was out of control and that he did everything to stop it. So, in fact, his foot was on the brake. That evidence was known prior to the trial." Schafer added, "By looking at the filament, it was clear -- and I don't think any experts disagree with this -- that the brakes were on at the point of impact."
"This never seemed right. A man with his family in the car -- his pregnant wife -- goes on a suicide mission? Then, the recalls started, and the complaints sounded just like what happened to Mr. Lee," Schafer said in March. "It sounds just like a case of unintended acceleration."
And here is another article link and quotes on the lawsuit against Toyota over that crash :
"Hilliard put on expert testimony to show that the accelerator on Lee's 1996 Toyota Camry suddenly and unexpectedly stuck in the near wide-open position, causing the car to accelerate. He also called to testify three independent witnesses who had experienced similar events in their 1996 Toyota Camry, a doctor, a Blackhawk helicopter pilot currently deployed in Kuwait and a former CFO of a college university. "
And just when I was totally confused on this issue here comes more confusion. I also found out that in the 1980s Audi had an unintended acceleration problem of it's own. I will add that this is a controversial topic with some claiming Audi cars were dangerous and others saying it was blown out of proportion.
Here are some articles and quotes on the subject and links including to the original NHTSA report:
Some versions of Audi idle-stabilization system were prone to defects which resulted in excessive idle speeds and brief unanticipated accelerations of up to 0.3g. These accelerations could not be the sole cause of [long-duration unintended acceleration incidents], but might have triggered some [of the long-duration incidents] by startling the driver.”
I just want to research used cars and find the best ones, staying away from models with known problems and definitely staying away from any with dangerous issues.
Would you look at that, A Toyota model on the list for lowest deaths. Can't let facts get in the way of paranoia.
Considering they are the largest automaker it's numerically impossible not to be. Toyota pi$$e$ on any us domestic. Please. They are exponentially a better car in all categories.
Here are some articles on this subject . Toyota has lied and covered up the truth for so long I doubt they even know what the truth is anymore. I feel serious concern over this issue, and as I have stated in my first post in the early 1990s I had a Toyota I loved.It is only the newer cars I do not trust.
Here is a quote from the first article I have posted:
"The Associated Press reports on one particular incident in which a man’s “2009 Camry accelerated to about 15 mph on a street near his home on Saturday, five days after a dealership trimmed the gas pedal and installed new brake override software as part of the floor mat recall.” They go on to note that the car “didn't stop for several seconds even though he pressed on the brakes.”
Yeah, right. And GM , Ford are soooooooo much better, right? GM, faulty ignition switches??? Killing how many now? A cover up for 11 years? Just look up recalls and you will finally find GM and Ford number 1 in something.....please....the ford pinto....kaboom! The GM vega....lol......the recalls on domestics is the size of a war and peace novel.
Keep kidding yourself and buy another domestic. We Toyota owners can use another laugh. Especially when you go to sell or trade it. Then we roar with laughter.
Yeah, right. And GM , Ford are soooooooo much better, right? GM, faulty ignition switches??? Killing how many now? A cover up for 11 years? Just look up recalls and you will finally find GM and Ford number 1 in something.....please....the ford pinto....kaboom! The GM vega....lol......the recalls on domestics is the size of a war and peace novel.
Keep kidding yourself and buy another domestic. We Toyota owners can use another laugh. Especially when you go to sell or trade it. Then we roar with laughter.
I do not trust those auto makers either. For what it is worth, I do not own a domestic I own a Hyundai and if you want to ignore this issue with Toyota you do so at your own risk, seriously I only care about people's safety.
I do not trust those auto makers either. For what it is worth, I do not own a domestic I own a Hyundai and if you want to ignore this issue with Toyota you do so at your own risk, seriously I only care about people's safety.
I would not drive a car. Dig deep enough and every auto manufacturer has had a safety recall in it's history.
Honestly, majority of accidents are from user error not car malfunctions. Train yourself to be a more astute and diligent driver and you are going to be better off than 90% of the population.
Keep in mind even if you pick the safest car out there those "dangerous" Toyotas are going to be all around you (they are one of the if not the top selling mfg). You have no control over what others are going to do.
Either drive a tank (literally) or stay off the roads.
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