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Old 04-14-2016, 07:45 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,737,926 times
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I hate it when news sites compare the model 3 vs the bolt... The bolt is ugly, doesn't have an option to get 300+ miles, doesn't have autopilot as standard equipment, and it costs more... When I look at the bolt, I see a 22k car, not a 37k car... To me, paying 37k for the bolt is a ripoff, it's almost like buying a Prius and overpaying for it... Rumor is that tesla is going to have an awesome HUD as standard equipment..

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/recent-te...202444562.html
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:46 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,843,050 times
Reputation: 6842
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Originally Posted by ihatedcu View Post
You seem to enjoy electric motor in your house. If ICE is so great, why don't you replace all your electric motor with ICE. Let see, you can replace your AC compressor, ceiling fan, mixer, microwave, dish washer, washing machine, dryer, electric razor, vent, and refrigerator.
I enjoy using the proper technology for the proper application. I don't brainwash myself to think otherwise.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:08 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,843,050 times
Reputation: 6842
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Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
I hate it when news sites compare the model 3 vs the bolt... The bolt is ugly, doesn't have an option to get 300+ miles, doesn't have autopilot as standard equipment, and it costs more... When I look at the bolt, I see a 22k car, not a 37k car... To me, paying 37k for the bolt is a ripoff, it's almost like buying a Prius and overpaying for it... Rumor is that tesla is going to have an awesome HUD as standard equipment..

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/recent-te...202444562.html
They're the same price point, offer the same range, and they're both electric.

That being said the Bolt is most likely to be available this decade. It may even be on Generation 2 by the time the Model 3 comes out.

Your "300 mile" option won't be offered at $35k. You'll be north of $45k by then.
Tesla doesn't have autopilot as standard. Read the website. It says "autopilot hardware". That's Tesla speak for "you pay us thousands of dollars and we enable the hardware". Model S's have all come with autopilot hardware for years now, they up-charge you to actually use it.

The Bolt is a $37k car ($30k after tax credit that won't be available to Model 3 owners). The Tesla you're dreaming about is about $50k and won't be available for years.
Then of course there's Chevy's, massive dealer support, apparent invincibility to bankruptcy, and much higher reliability ratings than Tesla.
Tesla is used to swapping entire drivetrains multiple times under warranty. Can you imagine doing that while they're trying to squeeze out 400,000 cars and another 400,000 "spare " drivetrains to replace them with? Imagine that your battery needs replacement, but there's a months long wait for a new battery.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,294 posts, read 2,643,944 times
Reputation: 3151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post

I wouldn't buy a car that I can not sit in and drive to make sure it is comfortable. One of my family members is tall and he doesn't fit into many cars, especially imports. That's a little car and might not be comfortable for people who are more than average height or size.
I'm 6'6", 330 pounds and I put down my $1K for a Model 3. I'll bet I am bigger than your family member. I had to drive my mom's Corolla a few times last year and I managed.

Now, I won't likely be the primary driver, but I will occasionally be the passenger, and I am not worried.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,294 posts, read 2,643,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
Tesla's actually made some pretty questionable business moves. Why own your own stores when you can franchise them out? Even Apple sells phones in other places other than Apple stores. I wouldn't even bother with trying to create supercharger stations and perpetually pay for your own infrastructure when few people take electric cars out of town. Stopping every couple hours for 40-60 minutes isn't the strongest selling point for EVs. .
They claim it will be 30 minutes, which, if true, is fine with me. We have a kid and already stop every 200 miles to gas up, pi$$, grab food, etc. This usually takes about 15-20 minutes, so I'm fine with an extra 10.

Check out the current supercharger network. It's pretty impressive and is already convenient for our road trips. It will only be more prevalent in two or three years.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:44 AM
 
336 posts, read 374,947 times
Reputation: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
Tesla's actually made some pretty questionable business moves. Why own your own stores when you can franchise them out? Even Apple sells phones in other places other than Apple stores. I wouldn't even bother with trying to create supercharger stations and perpetually pay for your own infrastructure when few people take electric cars out of town. Stopping every couple hours for 40-60 minutes isn't the strongest selling point for EVs.
Tesla sells direct to eliminate the middle man. Apple's retail situation is not comparable; due to the demand for Apple products, retailers are willing to sell Apple phones and iPads for virtually no margin, because they believe it will bring in customers who will buy other things.

Tesla's SuperChargers charge a Tesla to 50% in 20 minutes and 80% in 40 minutes. On the highest capacity models, you get 170 miles of range in about 30 minutes. Tesla has said it is working on technology to bring the 50% charge time down to 5-10 minutes in the next few years, although it's not clear whether this faster charging will be compatible with current vehicles. The Supercharging network is integrated with the Tesla's Googlemap-based GPS navigation, so, for longer trips, the navigation routes you past a Supercharger when your vehicle will require a charge.

From the April 30 announcement:
Quote:
Musk said the supercharger network would double in size by the end of 2017. The number of supercharger stations throughout the world today is 613 with 3,628 individual chargers, so that will grow to more than 1,200 stations and 7,000 chargers throughout North America, Europe and the Asia-Pacific regions.
If you doubt Elon Musk knows what he is doing, just watch this video. This is the man who builds rockets with landable 1st stages, something Boeing and Lockheed Martin said was impossible a few years ago. He builds a family sedan that does 0-60 in 2.8 secs. He builds a SUV with wings. And he employs many of the smartest people on the planet, and shares engineering expertise across his companies (Tesla with SpaceX, SpaceX with Tesla, etc.).

Last edited by VAGeek; 04-16-2016 at 06:24 AM..
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Old 04-16-2016, 08:14 AM
 
Location: NY/LA
4,644 posts, read 4,501,651 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
Tesla sells direct to eliminate the middle man. Apple's retail situation is not comparable; due to the demand for Apple products, retailers are willing to sell Apple phones and iPads for virtually no margin, because they believe it will bring in customers who will buy other things.

Tesla's SuperChargers charge a Tesla to 50% in 20 minutes and 80% in 40 minutes. On the highest capacity models, you get 170 miles of range in about 30 minutes. Tesla has said it is working on technology to bring the 50% charge time down to 5-10 minutes in the next few years, although it's not clear whether this faster charging will be compatible with current vehicles. The Supercharging network is integrated with the Tesla's Googlemap-based GPS navigation, so, for longer trips, the navigation routes you past a Supercharger when your vehicle will require a charge.

From the April 30 announcement:


If you doubt Elon Musk knows what he is doing, just watch this video. This is the man who builds rockets with landable 1st stages, something Boeing and Lockheed Martin said was impossible a few years ago. He builds a family sedan that does 0-60 in 2.8 secs. He builds a SUV with wings. And he employs many of the smartest people on the planet, and shares engineering expertise across his companies (Tesla with SpaceX, SpaceX with Tesla, etc.).
Bypassing dealers also eliminates the part of car buying that almost everyone hates, which helps set Tesla apart from the rest of the industry in the minds of consumers. I'm sure there are people who would rather wait for a Model 3 rather than a Bolt so that they can avoid the games that dealers play.
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:23 AM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,843,050 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
Tesla sells direct to eliminate the middle man. Apple's retail situation is not comparable; due to the demand for Apple products, retailers are willing to sell Apple phones and iPads for virtually no margin, because they believe it will bring in customers who will buy other things.

Tesla's SuperChargers charge a Tesla to 50% in 20 minutes and 80% in 40 minutes. On the highest capacity models, you get 170 miles of range in about 30 minutes. Tesla has said it is working on technology to bring the 50% charge time down to 5-10 minutes in the next few years, although it's not clear whether this faster charging will be compatible with current vehicles. The Supercharging network is integrated with the Tesla's Googlemap-based GPS navigation, so, for longer trips, the navigation routes you past a Supercharger when your vehicle will require a charge.

From the April 30 announcement:


If you doubt Elon Musk knows what he is doing, just watch this video. This is the man who builds rockets with landable 1st stages, something Boeing and Lockheed Martin said was impossible a few years ago. He builds a family sedan that does 0-60 in 2.8 secs. He builds a SUV with wings. And he employs many of the smartest people on the planet, and shares engineering expertise across his companies (Tesla with SpaceX, SpaceX with Tesla, etc.).

I look at stopping every couple hours with kids to be a hassle. Finally get them settled down or napping or something then it's time to stop for 40 minutes.

There's a reason all other manufacturers of virtually every industry don't sell directly to the customer. It's expensive to maintain your own dealer network and a huge liability. Elon is the not the first person in the world who thought to do this, he's simply the only one trying it out the hard way. Much like his Falcon doors that he now regrets doing, he has a mentality that insist on repeating the mistakes of others because he thinks he is a genius.

Despite the propaganda I find Elon to be an arrogant moron. He's had some good ideas, but that's morphed into him thinking he's infallible which he's proven many times he's not. Anybody can make a 2.8 second car and not make any money. The car itself isn't impressive from a track standpoint. It shuts down after 3 minutes of sustained performance. 0-69 times make it easy to fool the ignorant.

SpaceX might sound impressive to someone unfamiliar with Spaceflight, but we've built space stations , Mars rovers, and landed men in the moon over 5 decades ago. This is a video of barge landing, which is about as impressive as watching an airplane land. The space shuttle was already reusable as was its boosters. Lockheed and Boeing have the capability of dong what ever they want. The question is is it feasible which Elon has yet to prove on anything. I notice you didn't post any videos of SpaceX rocket explosions or failed barge landings.
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:46 AM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,843,050 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zero View Post
Bypassing dealers also eliminates the part of car buying that almost everyone hates, which helps set Tesla apart from the rest of the industry in the minds of consumers. I'm sure there are people who would rather wait for a Model 3 rather than a Bolt so that they can avoid the games that dealers play.
There's only a game if you make it one. Having no trade and dealing with the internet sales department is about as painless as it gets.
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:54 PM
 
Location: NY/LA
4,644 posts, read 4,501,651 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
There's only a game if you make it one. Having no trade and dealing with the internet sales department is about as painless as it gets.
Even if that's true, the majority of car buyers don't see it that way and would rather have nothing to do with dealers. So bypassing the dealers is still an advantage for Tesla and a smart move.
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