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The Evo is dead and was not cheap to begin with (there was a version that cost $42K before you even brought taxes and markup into it). The Final Edition is $38K. The $35.3K GSR is antiquated (what with its five-speed gearbox) and for all its visceral charms, you are essentially driving a bucket of bolts with no soundproofing to speak of. And it's still down almost 60 HP to the RS.
The RS starts barely $700 higher than the base STI while not making use of an ancient engine that is down 45 HP in comparison. The RS2 package actually undercuts the STI Limited by over $1,000.350.Maybe, maybe not. Also that tune may or may not void the powertrain warranty. I really don't understand the argument of "this car should be cheaper despite being better because I can build out the other car to match it in price". Manufacturers can't concern themselves with that when pricing their vehicles. Stock to stock the RS is a much better deal even if it costs a few hundred dollars more (again, with the caveat of the dealers not marking them up), unless you're one of those people who "won't pay $40K for a Focus" (in which case the RS really isn't for you and I've got a nice $25K Titanium I can refer you to).
I've owned the 04' STI so I know about the ancient engine. The new STI is not a great value right now, the WRX is much better buy at $27k, it makes 270HP but can be tuned to 350HP with some hardware upgrade easily. I think most consumers don't realize that you should never pay for inflated HP in a turbo car. You pay for the hardware. 300HP+ cars is quite common today and easy to mod with tuning.
The STI and Evo costs $37k because of total hardware not just the engine. Both cars dyno around 320HP stock, the STI you're getting a tranny that can handle up to 600HP safely, you're getting 3 differentials (1 user adjustable diff), and brake vectoring. The Evo similarly has 2 diffs that are intelligent and adjustable. With the sports paddle shifter you're getting even more hardware for the buck.
If we look at the Ford Focus RS spec sheet, it doesn't have as much hardware. It has some driver throttle control and user selectable diff settings like the drift mode. It's AWD hardware is the similar to Haldex but more tuned for performance than for all kinds of slippery conditions. It is FWD most of the time which can be a good thing to save gas but it'll likely get stuck in snow because it lacks a true center locking diff.
I expect the car to be fast stock, but once we compare it with some STI and Evo with similar tuned HP numbers then we'll be able to see how it stacks up on the track. I like to see some real world non-journalist reviews in a few months.
Last edited by vision33r; 06-22-2016 at 07:58 AM..
I've owned the 04' STI so I know about the ancient engine. The new STI is not a great value right now, the WRX is much better buy at $27k, it makes 270HP but can be tuned to 350HP with some hardware upgrade easily. I think most consumers don't realize that you should never pay for inflated HP in a turbo car. You pay for the hardware. 300HP+ cars is quite common today and easy to mod with tuning.
Again, I revert to my original point: what happens to the warranty once the engine is tuned?
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It's AWD hardware is the least advanced of the 3 cars here, Ford doesn't call it Haldex but that's what it is than a performance AWD system with true center locking diff. It is FWD most of the time.
It's definitely not Haldex.
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I expect the car to be fast stock, but once we compare it with some STI and Evo with similar tuned HP numbers then we'll be able to see how it stacks up on the track. I like to see some real world non-journalist reviews in a few months.
Given the variability of tuned vehicles, this comparison is moot and, again, manufacturers cannot concern themselves with what a few tinkerers are able to achieve. Their job is to manufacture (and price) to the public at large, even if that public occupies a small niche.
Also, I have all the respect in the world for the enthusiast crowd, but at least half (this number would be 99% if we were talking about your garden variety Focus) of them won't care about tuning or different types of differentials and will simply buy it because of the numbers and the mag reviews. The car is much more than just a sum of its parts, no matter how much those in the know would like to believe otherwise. Most RSs (understanding that "most" means 50% plus one) won't ever see a track or be modded in any way. It will just be a practical commuter toy and it's priced just well enough to be one.
Last edited by highlanderfil; 06-22-2016 at 08:07 AM..
too bad Subaru ditched the Hatchback WRX STI model it would have (sorry, one of my biggest grammar pet peeves) been a great competitor to the Ford focus RS and VW Golf R in the Hot hatch segment
Agreed. I mean, the STI still directly competes with the RS, but it's not as practical nor does it follow the true spirit of "hot hatch". The entire WRX/STI lineup is overdue for an overhaul, IMHO.
I'm a little bit surprised that GM hasn't thrown its hat into the game. The Opel/Vauxhall Astra VXR exists in Europe and while there no longer exists a Saturn counterpart for an easy-ish transplant, surely the hardware could be shoehorned into a Cruze hatch both in Europe and the U.S. (to amortize the costs)? Chevy races the Cruze in Euro touring cars, so it's not like imagining a hotter version would be too much of a leap. Also, I'd like a word with Nissan and their Nismo branch about a hotter Sentra - lord knows that nameplate could use all the help it could get...
Again, I revert to my original point: what happens to the warranty once the engine is tuned?Great. I'm not arguing against any of this but how does it help your argument that the RS
needs to be cheaper?It's definitely not Haldex.Given the variability of tuned vehicles, this comparison is moot and, again, manufacturers cannot concern themselves with what a few tinkerers are able to achieve. Their job is to manufacture (and price) to the public at large, even if that public occupies a small niche.
You're missing the point, the RS comes factory tuned to 350HP. Similarly the STI or EVO can easily dial up to 350HP safely with a flash. You won't void warranty if you reflash back to stock. See Cobb or any other tuner they can tell you how easy it is to flash and reflash back to stock. In fact, I wouldn't even consider running any of those cars without a tune. Stock ECU has too many bottlenecks in the programming, I much prefer running a tuner ECU program. I know Ford is very good in that respect but I'm sure Cobb can do better as they already have an AccessPort tuner available for the RS. Perhaps another 10-15HP could be unlocked easily. I'm not taking anything away from the RS, I'm simply stating that these cars should not be judged from HP numbers when they can be all tuned equally by dialing the right program and matching the right hardware.
I didn't say RS is Haldex but it is similar with two clutch packs. It's got similar active rear torque split like the EVO. It's not gonna beat the Evo or STI in snow or loose gravel with that hardware.
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Also, I have all the respect in the world for the enthusiast crowd, but at least half (this number would be 99% if we were talking about your garden variety Focus) of them won't care about tuning or different types of differentials and will simply buy it because of the numbers and the mag reviews. Most RSs (understanding that "most" means 50% plus one) won't ever see a track or be modded in any way. It will just be a practical commuter toy and it's priced just well enough to be one.
True enough, the armchair racers will be basing the value of these cars on stories and accounts of people who do tune the cars and throw them out on the track. But most people are driving these on the roads.
I'm not taking anything away from the RS, I'm simply stating that these cars should not be judged from HP numbers when they can be all tuned equally by dialing the right program and matching the right hardware.
And that's fair enough. I generally prefer to let the manufacturer of my cars figure out what's best for them in terms of tuning, but there's something to be said for the aftermarket community as well.
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I didn't say RS is Haldex but it is similar with two clutch packs.
I'm a little bit surprised that GM hasn't thrown its hat into the game. The Opel/Vauxhall Astra VXR exists in Europe and while there no longer exists a Saturn counterpart for an easy-ish transplant, surely the hardware could be shoehorned into a Cruze hatch both in Europe and the U.S. (to amortize the costs)? Chevy races the Cruze in Euro touring cars, so it's not like imagining a hotter version would be too much of a leap. Also, I'd like a word with Nissan and their Nismo branch about a hotter Sentra - lord knows that nameplate could use all the help it could get...
I don't think GM wants in on compact sports pocket rocket anymore. They have failed miserably with the Cobalt SS and Saturn Ion Redline. They're not bad, they just didn't sell at the volume. I'm not sure how many Ford RS will be sold consider that for $36k~40k there are a lot of muscle cars that are cheaper. Camaro starts at just $25k and Mustang V8 costs about the same as RS.
I'm waiting for a used M-B A45 AMG. 381HP AWD $49k, I hope I can snatch one for $15-18 in 3-5 years.
I don't think GM wants in on compact sports pocket rocket anymore. They have failed miserably with the Cobalt SS and Saturn Ion Redline. They're not bad, they just didn't sell at the volume.
And it's a shame because they have a decent platform and racing pedigree upon which to build. Plus, the Cobalt and Ion didn't have the Euro chops the VXR has (and in this segment that's kind of important).
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I'm not sure how many Ford RS will be sold consider that for $36k~40k there are a lot of muscle cars that are cheaper. Camaro starts at just $25k and Mustang V8 costs about the same as RS. Ford will have no problem selling as many RSs as can be produced.
Completely different vehicles. I sincerely doubt there will be much serious cross-shop between the RS and the Mustang - not any more than between, say, the Golf R and the Camaro today.
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I'm waiting for a used M-B A45 AMG. 381HP AWD $49k, I hope I can snatch one for $15-18 in 3-5 years.
You are going to be waiting for a while since they don't sell them in the U.S. (another example of a highly desirable car we don't get here) and I would strongly advise against the CLA45 that we do get. That body style helps nobody. And the GLA45 is too big for my tastes.
Last edited by highlanderfil; 06-22-2016 at 12:22 PM..
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