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love hondas but when time came to return my 2014 civic (lease)
I went for camry instead of accord. only reason was that camry has 6 speed AT, accord is CVT
i have no problem with long term reliability because i only lease cars. usually its 36 months. i just prefer regular AT driving experience. CVT has some pros but overall i prefer good old AT
auto start/stop is another thing. i just HATE it!!!!!
Just wondering if anyone shares my point of view. Thanks to gubmint fuel economy requirements in the upcoming years, car manufacturers are constantly coming out with features and changes designed to increase fuel economy. Frankly, I dislike most of these changes for various reasons; questionable long-term reliability, poor driving experience, fuel economy is not one of my car-buying considerations, etc. Such changes include:
-Turbo engines, especially 4-cyl turbos in relatively big cars.
-CVT transmissions
-Automatic start/stop when idling that cannot be permanently turned off.
-Phasing out V6 engines.
-Phasing out spare tires (minor complaint).
I feel like the time when almost all cars have these features or changes is rapidly approaching. They are running out of ways to meet the fuel economy standards without simply shrinking the engines again and lowering power. I am considering buying a new car in the near future that does not have these features/changes and holding onto it for a long time. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same way, and if so, what action you are taking.
I agree 100%, and the worst thing is active braking where the car brakes for you. What about the potential for unexpected emergency braking due to a paper bag or some road debris you would normally run over, now it brakes without you knowing it or the person in back of you. What if the sensor fails and makes phantom full stops intermittently.
I agree 100%, and the worst thing is active braking where the car brakes for you. What about the potential for unexpected emergency braking due to a paper bag or some road debris you would normally run over, now it brakes without you knowing it or the person in back of you. What if the sensor fails and makes phantom full stops intermittently.
What if those newfangled "starters" don't work as well as our hand crank?!?! Bah! Humbug! No progress needed, take your windshield wipers and shove them! What if they potentially malfunction at some point in time! We don't need them!
Thank you for this info! I'm a "car guy", and like most, I cannot stand the idea of not having a gear -- I'm really hoping these CVT things just simply go away.
I wish that they were just a passing fad, but they're spreading like kudzu (the vine that ate the South)...or maybe herpes would be a better metaphor???
Nissan was the first company to use them in large numbers. Now their entire lineup of cars (except the 370Z and, oddly, the bare bones Versa S sedan, which uses a 4-speed automatic instead) have a CVT. The Rogue, Murano and Pathfinder SUVs also use CVTs.
Subaru no longer offers a conventional automatic on any of their vehicles- just CVTs. But I think the proof that CVTs are here to stay is when Honda adopted them widespread (Civic, Accord (4cyl), CR-V and everything else save the Odyssey, Pilot and Ridgeline). Even though the Honda versions mimic a regular automatic (they cycle through set ratios, creating the effect of gear changes), they're still not nearly as good as previous Honda automatics.
Jeep (Compass and Patriot), Chevy Spark and all Mitsubishi models (all two of them) also use CVTs. Toyota uses them on the Corolla (and Prius) so far, but I expect them to spread to the Camry and other high-volume models. Most hybrids also use them.
Engine and transmission technology has improved to the point where automatics provide equal or better fuel economy and performance to manuals. The Mazda3 and Mazda6 are prime examples. So the argument for CVTs being used for efficiency without sacrificing performance just doesn't wash anymore.
The big 'aha' moment came for me when Honda started using them. I don't know this for fact, but I strongly suspect that CVTs are cheaper to manufacture than conventional automatics. They have less moving parts and are mechanically more simple than a regular automatic. That's the only reason that makes any sense to me.
But they're still horrible and I hate them. Quite a few companies have avoided them so far. Most luxury/premium brands don't use them (except on their hybrid vehicles). Mazda, Ford, most GM brands and VW have also steered clear of them. I hope it stays that way.
Toyota seems like the last hold out in the CVT parade.
They are using them across the Corolla line (except the stripped, rental-fleet Corolla L, which has a 5-speed manual or 4-speed automatic). But they haven't implemented them in their top-selling model- the Camry.
The Avalon Hybrid, Camry Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid and RAV4 Hybrid (and the hideous Prius) also have CVTs.
Toyota (along with Honda and Subaru) is one of the few car companies that makes their own CVTs. The majority of companies buy CVTs from JATCO (a Japanese company partially owned by Nissan). Toyota owns 30% of another major transmission manufacturer, Aisin, and they build a lot of Toyota's automatics. But I'm not sure if they make the CVTs for Toyota....
Honda is the only mass-market auto manufacturer that has always built their own automatic transmissions. They have always done things their own way. Their automatic transmission design and function was always different that the other guys. Pre-2000, their engines even turned counterclockwise. If you aren't old enough to remember, this is the ONLY company that found a way to meet US emissions standards in the 1970s without the use of a catalytic converter. They do things their own way and I respect that.
Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me to see the next Camry with a CVT. The Camry is their top-selling model and, if their is a significant savings (or other perceived benefit), it wouldn't surprise me at all. The Accord and Altima, two of the Camry's top competitors, already use CVTs.
They are using them across the Corolla line (except the stripped, rental-fleet Corolla L, which has a 5-speed manual or 4-speed automatic). But they haven't implemented them in their top-selling model- the Camry.
The Avalon Hybrid, Camry Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid and RAV4 Hybrid (and the hideous Prius) also have CVTs.
Toyota (along with Honda and Subaru) is one of the few car companies that makes their own CVTs. The majority of companies buy CVTs from JATCO (a Japanese company partially owned by Nissan). Toyota owns 30% of another major transmission manufacturer, Aisin, and they build a lot of Toyota's automatics. But I'm not sure if they make the CVTs for Toyota....
Honda is the only mass-market auto manufacturer that has always built their own automatic transmissions. They have always done things their own way. Their automatic transmission design and function was always different that the other guys. Pre-2000, their engines even turned counterclockwise. If you aren't old enough to remember, this is the ONLY company that found a way to meet US emissions standards in the 1970s without the use of a catalytic converter. They do things their own way and I respect that.
Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me to see the next Camry with a CVT. The Camry is their top-selling model and, if their is a significant savings (or other perceived benefit), it wouldn't surprise me at all. The Accord and Altima, two of the Camry's top competitors, already use CVTs.
Hyundai also now designs and builds their own transmissions, including the 7 speed DCT.
Just wondering if anyone shares my point of view. Thanks to gubmint fuel economy requirements in the upcoming years, car manufacturers are constantly coming out with features and changes designed to increase fuel economy. Frankly, I dislike most of these changes for various reasons; questionable long-term reliability, poor driving experience, fuel economy is not one of my car-buying considerations, etc. Such changes include:
-Turbo engines, especially 4-cyl turbos in relatively big cars.
-CVT transmissions
-Automatic start/stop when idling that cannot be permanently turned off.
-Phasing out V6 engines.
-Phasing out spare tires (minor complaint).
I feel like the time when almost all cars have these features or changes is rapidly approaching. They are running out of ways to meet the fuel economy standards without simply shrinking the engines again and lowering power. I am considering buying a new car in the near future that does not have these features/changes and holding onto it for a long time. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same way, and if so, what action you are taking.
I feel that way. But then I disliked the initial fuel injection offering in the 5.0 Mustang in 1986. I was a diehard carburetor aficionado.
Also, with crankless ignition, probably name a few other improvements.
I see the inability to reprogram or rebuild a BCM as the main issue. Vehicle is just a lump of metal if it goes bad and no replacement is about.
Full gauges the norm nowadays with non-performance cars? Tachometer, water temperature, oil pressure, volts, maybe vacuum, and boost if FI? And a graduated one with numbered demarcations. Trans. temperature if automatic.
Besides fuel gauge obviously.
Seems the above more important than an infotainment section.
Last edited by Felix C; 08-21-2016 at 02:45 PM..
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