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people buy what companies tell them yo buy, big cars would make a comeback if automakers told people it was the latest trend, consumers are stupid , like sheep lead to the slaughter. I look at every commercial with great suspicion, even as an annoyance, I dont think I have ever bought something because of a commercial. I find them annoying but I am the exception to the rule..
people buy what companies tell them yo buy, big cars would make a comeback if automakers told people it was the latest trend, consumers are stupid , like sheep lead to the slaughter. I look at every commercial with great suspicion, even as an annoyance, I dont think I have ever bought something because of a commercial. I find them annoying but I am the exception to the rule..
That is funny.
Lots of cars that the car companies were building that they don't build anymore and the reason is no one wanted to buy them. Market research is big in my area. Even Porsche has a design center in Southern California. Just about everything that the manufactures do anymore is calculated toward what they think people want to buy. They spend a ton of money researching what people want to buy. Some manufactures like Honda try and stick with what has sold in the past. Still when changes are made they can backfire. Look at the Civic. A few years back they made a new Civic that the people did not want. My sister bought one of them and loved it. Honda was not seeing the sales out of it. Instead of waiting the normal 4 years to change out the design, they did it the next year. They did not try selling it to people. Car companies that don't keep up with consumer trends will lose money. Problem with many GM brands is that they were selling to an aging population that did not buy other brands. I had an Oldsmobile from 1971. I would not have bought any products from Oldsmobile in the 1980's, 1990's, or until the brand was dropped. Toyota had been living with the same problem, an aging customer base. The best example of consumer demand looking for a product that did not exist was when Lee Iacoca found people looking for a sporty 2 door car. He is the father of the Mustang from his days at Ford. Research showed that the market wanted a car, people were willing to buy a car, and no one was building it. Ford brought the Mustang out as a mid year model in 1964. The first examples are the 1964 and a half model year. It sold out
Lots of cars that the car companies were building that they don't build anymore and the reason is no one wanted to buy them. Market research is big in my area. Even Porsche has a design center in Southern California. Just about everything that the manufactures do anymore is calculated toward what they think people want to buy. They spend a ton of money researching what people want to buy. Some manufactures like Honda try and stick with what has sold in the past. Still when changes are made they can backfire. Look at the Civic. A few years back they made a new Civic that the people did not want. My sister bought one of them and loved it. Honda was not seeing the sales out of it. Instead of waiting the normal 4 years to change out the design, they did it the next year. They did not try selling it to people. Car companies that don't keep up with consumer trends will lose money. Problem with many GM brands is that they were selling to an aging population that did not buy other brands. I had an Oldsmobile from 1971. I would not have bought any products from Oldsmobile in the 1980's, 1990's, or until the brand was dropped. Toyota had been living with the same problem, an aging customer base. The best example of consumer demand looking for a product that did not exist was when Lee Iacoca found people looking for a sporty 2 door car. He is the father of the Mustang from his days at Ford. Research showed that the market wanted a car, people were willing to buy a car, and no one was building it. Ford brought the Mustang out as a mid year model in 1964. The first examples are the 1964 and a half model year. It sold out
I remember the first Mustang I ever saw. It belonged to my eighth grade teacher. She took the whole class out to the parking lot to see it, sit in it, and otherwise drool over it. We thought it was just the neatest thing ever.
Even though we were looking at a jazzed up Falcon.
Lots of cars that the car companies were building that they don't build anymore and the reason is no one wanted to buy them. Market research is big in my area. Even Porsche has a design center in Southern California. Just about everything that the manufactures do anymore is calculated toward what they think people want to buy. They spend a ton of money researching what people want to buy. Some manufactures like Honda try and stick with what has sold in the past. Still when changes are made they can backfire. Look at the Civic. A few years back they made a new Civic that the people did not want. My sister bought one of them and loved it. Honda was not seeing the sales out of it. Instead of waiting the normal 4 years to change out the design, they did it the next year. They did not try selling it to people. Car companies that don't keep up with consumer trends will lose money. Problem with many GM brands is that they were selling to an aging population that did not buy other brands. I had an Oldsmobile from 1971. I would not have bought any products from Oldsmobile in the 1980's, 1990's, or until the brand was dropped. Toyota had been living with the same problem, an aging customer base. The best example of consumer demand looking for a product that did not exist was when Lee Iacoca found people looking for a sporty 2 door car. He is the father of the Mustang from his days at Ford. Research showed that the market wanted a car, people were willing to buy a car, and no one was building it. Ford brought the Mustang out as a mid year model in 1964. The first examples are the 1964 and a half model year. It sold out
He has a valid point, though....particularly when you look at the 1980-ish time frame when the seismic shift to utterly pathetic FWD tin can vibration generators was underway. That period absolutely was akin to sheep being led to slaughter.
Nobody in their right mind wanted a Chevy Citation or "Olds" Omega. But those disasters - and others like them - were sold to a public that, after a few months of brainwashing their supple and feeble minds, could have been convinced to buy ocean front property in South Sudan. I watched it in disbelief.
We are where we are today in the automotive world because the cars of the greatest era in American automotive history were regulated out of existence. And a massive marketing campaign was perpetrated that drowned the pigs that subsequently began rolling off assembly lines in lipstick.
While there has been technical advancement that has improved economy, lowered emissions, and such, in the big-picture sense we have been going backward for 30-40 years (varied by model) in terms of the overall comfort, quality, and desirability - the fun and excitement - of owning and driving a car.
However, if our fortunes were to be reversed and new versions of the truly great ones were produced again, the stampede back to them would simply be the formerly imprisoned sheep set free and released to follow their hearts. Car companies could pocket what they would otherwise spend on advertising. Because great cars sell themselves.
yep, RWD cars when out of favor because the new trend was SUVs and then the SUV got to big and gas so expensive so they started selling everyone on the idea of a car that looked like an SUV , then loaded pickup trucks, now trucks are more car and less truck, people go out and buy a useless ass crew cab truck with a 4 ft bed that cant haul jack ****. the general public gets "Told" what they should buy. the public doesnt tell automakers what they will buy, it was that way in the past but no more. now cars today are like jelly coated suppositories, they are all the same, bland, no soul, not style and class, just toasters with wheels.
Don't forget CAFE standards, forcing car makers to make them smaller and smaller, with 4 cyl turbos becoming standard in more of these smaller cars. If you want something big and comfortable, you gotta get a truck now.
Don't forget CAFE standards, forcing car makers to make them smaller and smaller, with 4 cyl turbos becoming standard in more of these smaller cars. If you want something big and comfortable, you gotta get a truck now.
Not the big cars so much but I sometimes miss big old bench seats, especially in trucks. One, I sometimes feel all hemmed in by the bucket seat and all the dash and compartment stuff. You could lay down take a nap, you could ride close to your sweetie, you dog could sit up front with you (not that safe I know but still).
In some ways the downsizing and smaller engine displacement by the Gov gestapo in the 70's-80's. forced the American automakers to finally innovate and build cars that are on par with Foreign makes of today which has benefited the consumer greatly because now we have 4 cylinders that produce way over 250 hp, and 6's that put out as much power from V8's of the 60's, plus the days of tinkering on your own car isn't an issue anymore. So progress has made a difference here, as well as the advancements of technology that has allowed for these things to happen. So I am a fan of progress but for difference reasons.
It's taken 30 years, but GM and Ford have done well with mid sizers and the smaller cars they have built in the past several years with the Malibu and Fusion respectively. Their reliablity has gotten better to. Compared to the early 2000's most of Ford and GM small cars were utter crap!
Progress is not always measured correctly or what it seems. For instance we have social media that has transformed the way we communicate, but is it honestly for the better? Sure it helps us keep in touch with friends and family members that are far away and it allows us to see into their world, but this form of communication has basically eliminated the need to actually call the person and to actually build a REAL relationship, instead of hitting the like button just so the other person knows that you are aware of their existence. We have gotten lazy as a society in this aspect.
This lead to the main point that I am trying to make. The 60's and especially the 70's big cars were made for long travels in the most comfortable of ways. It was all about riding comfort which included soft seats, and the ability for the car to absorb road shock and isolate it's occupants, this was the way it was in the 70's. I think American automakers today have lost this trait for the sake of handling and a more secure feel for the road, but they fail to realize in many big cities across this country we have deteriorating infrastructure with badly maintained streets and bridges that those cars have to drive on thousands of miles a year. So the suspension setup in most modern cars aren't designed for streets with major potholes, lumps and bumps, and severe cracking like you see in cities in CA. The suspensions will wear faster and because so many cars now have 17-20 inch wheels, the tires aren't fat enough to absorb the road shock, therefore rims get damaged, and the suspension system takes a rough beating early in the cars life so repairs are expected sooner.
This isn't such a concern with big 70's cars as they were designed from the beginning to deal with those kinds of bad road conditions.
The days when driving a living room on wheels in total serene comfort, with interior space to stretch out for 5 people has been lost for good in the name of progress. A 5 passenger mid-sizer in 2016 isn't the same as driving a 1975 Chevy Impala which is heavier car with a much longer wheelbase and a softer suspension.
No new Cadillac or even a BMW 7 Series even with all their latest suspension tech features will give you the same ride quality, comfort of a mint condition mid to late 70's Cadillac Fleetwood or Lincoln Continental. You cannot substitute a heavy curb weight, a long wheelbase and a full frame with soft coil springs, and expect similar results in the newer models.
Also, you can never go wrong with a big V8, a big heavy duty trans like a C6 or a Turbo 400, heavy duty rear axle, a full frame, and just the rugged construction of a 70's car were good. When they were tuned right, they ran great, and for the most part, if people just kept up the maintenance on them, they could run forever.
I understand the issues with carbs, and all the issues that are associated with them, but once rebuilt and all vac hoses are replaced, there shouldn't be problems. Today's gas is a cause for concern in older classics, so this is why knowing a knowledgeable carb rebuilder that can retune the carb to run on new gas is key for a happy engine, especially the metering rods.
Sometimes the most basic, ancient, simpler forms of getting the job done works better than the complexity of a new design.
Just look at all the pickups today, they still use rear leaf springs besides for Ram. You would think in the last 60 years, pick up trucks would become more innovative in its suspension design, but I guess the cost and the reliability of the leaf spring has been so good for so long, that there is no need to change it. Progress loses again.
Another addition to suspension, if you look at every large American RWD car from the 50's-90's, the suspension system is straightforward and easy to repair. Imagine how much a new control arm bushing or ball joint cost on that new 2015-17 whatever? Probably 2 to 3 times as much as it would cost on something more conventional.
Long live the big bold and beautiful 70's tanks on wheels!!!
Last edited by sdlife619; 10-27-2016 at 06:30 AM..
In some ways the downsizing and smaller engine displacement by the Gov gestapo in the 70's-80's. forced the American automakers to finally innovate and build cars that are on par with Foreign makes of today which has benefited the consumer greatly because now we have 4 cylinders that produce way over 250 hp, and 6's that put out as much power from V8's of the 60's, plus the days of tinkering on your own car isn't an issue anymore. So progress has made a difference here, as well as the advancements of technology that has allowed for these things to happen. So I am a fan of progress but for difference reasons.
It's taken 30 years, but GM and Ford have done well with mid sizers and the smaller cars they have built in the past several years with the Malibu and Fusion respectively. Their reliablity has gotten better to. Compared to the early 2000's most of Ford and GM small cars were utter crap!
Progress is not always measured correctly or what it seems. For instance we have social media that has transformed the way we communicate, but is it honestly for the better? Sure it helps us keep in touch with friends and family members that are far away and it allows us to see into their world, but this form of communication has basically eliminated the need to actually call the person and to actually build a REAL relationship, instead of hitting the like button just so the other person knows that you are aware of their existence. We have gotten lazy as a society in this aspect.
This lead to the main point that I am trying to make. The 60's and especially the 70's big cars were made for long travels in the most comfortable of ways. It was all about riding comfort which included soft seats, and the ability for the car to absorb road shock and isolate it's occupants, this was the way it was in the 70's. I think American automakers today have lost this trait for the sake of handling and a more secure feel for the road, but they fail to realize in many big cities across this country we have deteriorating infrastructure with badly maintained streets and bridges that those cars have to drive on thousands of miles a year. So the suspension setup in most modern cars aren't designed for streets with major potholes, lumps and bumps, and severe cracking like you see in cities in CA. The suspensions will wear faster and because so many cars now have 17-20 inch wheels, the tires aren't fat enough to absorb the road shock, therefore rims get damaged, and the suspension system takes a rough beating early in the cars life so repairs are expected sooner.
This isn't such a concern with big 70's cars as they were designed from the beginning to deal with those kinds of bad road conditions.
The days when driving a living room on wheels in total serene comfort, with interior space to stretch out for 5 people has been lost for good in the name of progress. A 5 passenger mid-sizer in 2016 isn't the same as driving a 1975 Chevy Impala which is heavier car with a much longer wheelbase and a softer suspension.
No new Cadillac or even a BMW 7 Series even with all their latest suspension tech features will give you the same ride quality, comfort of a mint condition mid to late 70's Cadillac Fleetwood or Lincoln Continental. You cannot substitute a heavy curb weight, a long wheelbase and a full frame with soft coil springs, and expect similar results in the newer models.
Also, you can never go wrong with a big V8, a big heavy duty trans like a C6 or a Turbo 400, heavy duty rear axle, a full frame, and just the rugged construction of a 70's car were good. When they were tuned right, they ran great, and for the most part, if people just kept up the maintenance on them, they could run forever.
I understand the issues with carbs, and all the issues that are associated with them, but once rebuilt and all vac hoses are replaced, there shouldn't be problems. Today's gas is a cause for concern in older classics, so this is why knowing a knowledgeable carb rebuilder that can retune the carb to run on new gas is key for a happy engine, especially the metering rods.
Sometimes the most basic, ancient, simpler forms of getting the job done works better than the complexity of a new design.
Just look at all the pickups today, they still use rear leaf springs besides for Ram. You would think in the last 60 years, pick up trucks would become more innovative in its suspension design, but I guess the cost and the reliability of the leaf spring has been so good for so long, that there is no need to change it. Progress loses again.
Another addition to suspension, if you look at every large American RWD car from the 50's-90's, the suspension system is straightforward and easy to repair. Imagine how much a new control arm bushing or ball joint cost on that new 2015-17 whatever? Probably 2 to 3 times as much as it would cost on something more conventional.
Long live the big bold and beautiful 70's tanks on wheels!!!
Great post! I drove a '72 Electra for a while back in college in the late 70s. I remember one time I was following a friend who was driving a Rabbit or similar teeny little box. He hit some kind of pothole and his car jumped about a foot. I thought, oh boy, here it comes! Then, nothing. Smooth as glass.
I miss that old boat. Really not loving the small, "in-touch-with-the-road" Euro-style sedans that predominate today. People who love them, love them. I'm more of a float-on-the-cloud kind of driver, though. I'd drive a blimp if such were available!
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We have gotten lazy as a society in this aspect.
